pilots refuse to fly with gun loons onboard

Bogart wrote:


Never heard of Jim Yanik. Was it posted to alt.nuke.the.usa? If not,
I didn't see it.

Then THAT proves that you are indeed a mental midget, as all you do is
watch and post to that retarded, newsgroup!

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 00:37:12 GMT, AH#49 "Asshole™#49"@ your.net
wrote:

Bogart wrote:


Never heard of Jim Yanik. Was it posted to alt.nuke.the.usa? If not,
I didn't see it.

Then THAT proves that you are indeed a mental midget, as all you do is
watch and post to that retarded, newsgroup!

Yet more asylum inmates turning on each other. Sarah/Sable/Kensock
etc, your socks are coming undone, aren't they dear.

--
The Wit and Wisdom of Mort Davis:

On his inability to come to terms with technology:
"I have it ("Dave") killfiled. Yet it keeps responding to me."

On Empathy:
"Nick is ignoirant."
On his sexual habits:
"Box cutters could easily be concealed in shoes, up the rectum or vagina"

On American children rummaging through rubbish for food:
"True, ythey gewt the inbrads in Parliment to do it"

His neo-con solution for world peace:
"When Europe ****s itsself again, I suggest we drop nukes on it until no
human life remains."

Displaying that he's yet another lamer with a sticky
Caps Lock key who believes that anyone cares about the
contents of his killfile:
"Keep changing those fake idents, I have plenty more room in the old
killfile, ****TARD."

(Jim Austin) wrote in message om...
nick wrote:

"Some flights to the US could be grounded after the airline pilots' union
called on its members not to fly with armed sky marshals on board."

"Airline pilots should not take off with marshals on board, the British
Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa) has said."

"Capt Granshaw defended pilots' right to take action and said: "Our advice
to pilots is that until adequate written and agreed assurances are received,
flight crew should not operate flights where sky marshals are carried."

It's apparent that the pilots' union prefers that British planes be
available to terrorists to crash into buildings and kill Americans,
and that "nick" shares the same sentiments.


Jim,

You can only have one Captain on a ship. Ever heard of "Mutiny on the
Bounty?" You arm some idiot in the back, who has very limited
knowledge of aviation, and let him think he is charge, you have a
recipe for disaster. (in the past they've fallen asleep, left their
guns in the lavatory, shot other officers by accident, and gotten
drunk on duty. They have a boring job and they have to be accountable
to the PIC. The Brit pilot's union is correct. They don't want our
dysfunctional skymarshal program on board.

2nd Rant:
It's really amazing to me that this anti-gun society accepts shooting
down a hundred people with an air-to-air missile as necessary to
protect buildings, but at the same time is appalled at the suggestion
of the Captain being issued a side-arm to prevent this.

pacplyer - out

"Nomen Nescio" ] wrote in message
...



A window hit would be troublesome, but not catastrophic. And again, a FMJ
would be
more likely to punch a clean hole, but even if the window shatters,
everything is not going
to suddenly get sucked out.

Agreed, mostly. That is generally a Hollywood myth.

You're only looking at a 6 - 8 psi difference inside to out.

Sufficient under some circumstances to cause problems. I've been knocked
down by a 5 psi air pressure differential.

"Morton Davis" wrote in message
news:UgeJb.715753$HS4.5127546@attbi_s01...

"Yardpilot" wrote in message
news:TX8Jb.38992$xX.133717@attbi_s02...

" Bogart " wrote in message
s.com...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:04:33 GMT, "Scout"
wrote:


" Bogart " wrote in message
ws.com...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:08:13 GMT, "Scout"
wrote:


"Bill Funk" wrote in message
news On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:37:33 -0700, "Kevin McCue"
wrote:

Wanna bet your life that they wouldn't miss? I wouldn't.
I'd
rather
deal
with the terrorist.
Since the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity seems to think that
the
terrorist are likely trained ATP's how will the Air Marshal
stop
them
when
they are locked behind that now reinforced, bullet proof
cockpit
door?

The only way a terrorist could get behind that locked, bullet
proof
door is for someone to open it.
The British pliots (or rather, their union) seem to think that
having
the pilots open that door is a really good idea.

Right, which is why it was managed to be opened by a couple of
people
armed
with nothing more than a drink cart.

How did they open a locked bullet proof door with a drink cart?

They rammed the door with it.

You're claiming a locked bulletproof door gave way to ramming from a
drink cart?

I don't see why it couldn't happen. A bullet proof vest won't sto0p an
icepick.


http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/A...shalsWSJE.html

" Reinforced cockpit doors are now in place, but because of engineering
constraints few experts have much faith in their effectiveness. Last
summer, on a bet to test the doors' strength, an overnight cleaning
crew at Dulles Airport near Washington, D.C. rammed a drink cart into
one of the new doors on a United Airlines plane. The door reportedly
broke off its hinges. The doors for European airlines generally provide
even less protection."

There has been a limited redesign by an airline or two because of that.
Four-point titanium locks, reinforcing bars, things like that. Evidently
there is no industry-wide standard. FYI, a "drink cart" is not an
insubstantial piece of material. One can weigh over 300 pounds.

"pacplyer" wrote in message
om...
(Jim Austin) wrote in message
om...
nick wrote:

"Some flights to the US could be grounded after the airline pilots'
union
called on its members not to fly with armed sky marshals on board."

"Airline pilots should not take off with marshals on board, the
British
Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa) has said."

"Capt Granshaw defended pilots' right to take action and said: "Our
advice
to pilots is that until adequate written and agreed assurances are
received,
flight crew should not operate flights where sky marshals are
carried."

It's apparent that the pilots' union prefers that British planes be
available to terrorists to crash into buildings and kill Americans,
and that "nick" shares the same sentiments.


Jim,

You can only have one Captain on a ship.

**** YOU.

-*MORT*-

"Yardpilot" wrote in message
news:tipJb.727713$Tr4.1877967@attbi_s03...

There has been a limited redesign by an airline or two because of that.
Four-point titanium locks, reinforcing bars, things like that. Evidently
there is no industry-wide standard. FYI, a "drink cart" is not an
insubstantial piece of material. One can weigh over 300 pounds.


So can some passengers....

-*MORT*-

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 04:35:25 GMT, "Morton Davis"
wrote:


"pacplyer" wrote in message
. com...
(Jim Austin) wrote in message
. com...
nick wrote:

"Some flights to the US could be grounded after the airline pilots'
union
called on its members not to fly with armed sky marshals on board."

"Airline pilots should not take off with marshals on board, the
British
Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa) has said."

"Capt Granshaw defended pilots' right to take action and said: "Our
advice
to pilots is that until adequate written and agreed assurances are
received,
flight crew should not operate flights where sky marshals are
carried."

It's apparent that the pilots' union prefers that British planes be
available to terrorists to crash into buildings and kill Americans,
and that "nick" shares the same sentiments.


Jim,

You can only have one Captain on a ship.

**** YOU.

-*MORT*-


Thanks for your important and interesting contribution to the debate,
Mort.

--
The Wit and Wisdom of Mort Davis:

On his inability to come to terms with technology:
"I have it ("Dave") killfiled. Yet it keeps responding to me."

On Empathy:
"Nick is ignoirant."
On his sexual habits:
"Box cutters could easily be concealed in shoes, up the rectum or vagina"

On American children rummaging through rubbish for food:
"True, ythey gewt the inbrads in Parliment to do it"

His neo-con solution for world peace:
"When Europe ****s itsself again, I suggest we drop nukes on it until no
human life remains."

Displaying that he's yet another lamer with a sticky
Caps Lock key who believes that anyone cares about the
contents of his killfile:
"Keep changing those fake idents, I have plenty more room in the old
killfile, ****TARD."

Gregory Procter wrote:


LIBassbug wrote:


Gregory Procter wrote:


LIBassbug wrote:



Gregory Procter wrote:



LIBassbug wrote:




Gregory Procter wrote:




LIBassbug wrote:





Eddy_Down wrote:





Morton Davis wrote:





Box cutters could easily be concealed in shoes, up the rectum or vagina ,


It's like Mort came from a completely different planet, isn't it?

On our planet rectums and vaginas have small openings.


You have (5) very small fingers?

Is that a proposition?


No, it's a repeat of your pronouncement.

Is that when you told me you self fist?


No, when you told me you have a five finger arsehole.

Why do you care so much about how many fingers I can fit in my asshole?


You keep bringing the subject up - I'm waiting for some punch line.

There's always a line at my punch bowl. (my guest trust I didn't dip my
fingers in it).

--
Chris.
http://****france.com/

New Zealand tubbies.
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/nztubbies.jpg

Vengeance is a hamburger that is eaten cold, writes Georges Dupuy in
Liberation.

No wonder the French military is a band of sissies, look at where they
get their stock from. (800k mpeg file.)
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/frenchfighters.mpeg

funny mp3
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/horserace.mp3

The new Three Stooge's
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/happyfamily.jpg

Two clowns.
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/groggyclown.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/libassbug/nickclown.jpg

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:00:03 +0100 (CET), in a fit of unbridled digital
verbosity, once again proving the problem is located between the seat and the
keyboard, Nomen Nescio ] two-fingered
to all:

|-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
|From: Little John
|
|While I like the Glasers and my wife swears by them for her .38 snubby, the
US
|Sky Marshalls are not using them in airliners. They are now using the .357
Sig round in
|FMJ.
|
|That's not what my sources say. Where'd you hear this?
|
|- From a discussion on this very subject that I had with a friend in the FBI.
I've known
|him for over 25 years and went to College with him. So I tend to think the
info is
|credible. None of this is "classified" info. either, or he wouldn't have told
me.
|
|The reason that I've heard is that it's very effective for shooting through
a hostage and
|still having enough energy to drop a terrorist. It makes sense, but I
wouldn't want to be the
|hostage.
|
|If that's the "reasoning", it will also go through on a clean shot and damage
|the airliner or an innocent passenger, something that is entirely contrary to
|the mission.
|
|As in everything with the gvt., there's the "official" mission and then there
is the "real"
|mission.

Flashbacks to military days.

|The mission, first and foremost is to keep the terrorist from gaining control
of the plane.
|To this end, sacrificing a hostage, or a couple of passengers is acceptable.
Not
|desirable, but acceptable.
| They are trained in careful shot placement, however.

As everyone should be. Why use $7 worth of ammo when you can do the job with 70
cents worth? :-)

But, if they're trained that way, they won't need to shoot through a passenger.
There's always a target.

| My understanding is that they are being outfitted with Sig Sauer P226's in
the .357 sig
|caliber w/12 rd. mag. And not real happy about it 'cause it's not real
comfortable to
|carry on an airline. They're pushing for the Sig Sauer P239 w/7 rd. mag, also
in .357 sig.
|It's smaller and more comfortable to carry.

The Sigs are nice, but I still prefer the Berettas.

| The rationale behind the FMJ round, besides penetration, is that tests have
shown that
|if it hits a wire or hydraulic line, it's more likely to deflect or dent it
where a hollow point
|is more likely to cause a fracture, as is a pre-frag. like the Glaser.

The manufacturer might disagree with that. It was one of the design parameters,
and one of the tests performed before the Glasers were approved way back when.

| As far as puncturing the skin, it's just a small hole. The explosive
decompression that
|you see in the movies is a myth.

I'm aware of that. Anyone that's ever seen a shot up military plane knows
damned good and well that "explosive" decompression is a myth.

A hole in the skin wouldn't even result in a noticable
|pressure drop.
| A window hit would be troublesome, but not catastrophic. And again, a FMJ
would be
|more likely to punch a clean hole, but even if the window shatters, everything
is not going
|to suddenly get sucked out. You're only looking at a 6 - 8 psi difference
inside to out.

I stated in another post that the pressure difference wouldn't even give a
passenger a good hickey if they stuck their neck to the hole.

| If you think about it, it does make sense. Especially is you absolutly must
stop someone
|from detonating a bomb, NOW!!!!
| But I'm not involved with the Sky Marshall program, so I cannot personally
assure you
|that this info. is accurate. But I tend to believe it.

Ok. My info came from various sources, including a couple of airline captains
that are buddies. They might be using both.


jammin1-at-jammin1-dot-com

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