Why is Soaring declining

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:cm8kc.15438$Rd4.1082651@attbi_s51...
The airline marketing departments have unintentionally helped create this
problem by creating a "superman" aura around their pilots. By inference,
their message says all other pilots have lesser skills and it would be
folly
for mere mortals to attempt flight by their own hand.

.. Not everyone can learn to fly. The difficult part is to light a
spark in those that can learn.

I have long suspected that PC based Flight Simulators might be a key since
they are such a successful product. Most of these simulators are open
systems to the degree that new 'aircraft' can be designed for them.
Unfortunately, there is a dearth of really good simulated gliders.

There are a lot of really good computer people in this sport. If they
built
some great simulated gliders that could be downloaded free from soaring
web
sites along with a pitch that the real experience is available at their
local gliderport, we might see small but steady stream of real talent
showing up for lessons.

For those just taking rides, handing them a CD with flight sim 'gliders'
that matched what they just rode in might be a pretty good marketing tool
too.

Bill Daniels

.The flight simulator game is a great idea. Eithe a disk at the end of a
demo ride or downloadable from the internet. If a the SSA wanted to make
their web site really useful, maybe we could start an underground , web
based "soaring simulator cult" by "underground" or shreware type marketing
on the web by licensing one of the better simulator games for free download.
Maybe a two tier system with the second and better game on the disk you get
at the end of your demo ride. This might generate an extra bit of business
for the commercial operators and some new members (revenue stream) for the
clubs. Then there might be some demand for instructors as well.
Cheers!, Pete

I put my sig the way it is to stop the news poster program from adding
advertisements onto my sig. God knows why the university let
the newsreader provider do that...

Paul Repacholi wrote:
Martin Gregorie writes:

I knew this was going to happen...

- you should precede your sig with a line containing with two hyphens
and nothing else. Properly written news readers will spot these and
automatically remove the sig to save you the bother.

Wrong. So stupid reasons burried in history, a sig marker is `dash
dash SPACE' all on a line of its own. Yes, a trailing space. -- is in
fact quite common in the body of the postings on some newsgroups.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.


--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Michael wrote:

I've flown an L-13 as well, and even by comparison with a 1-26, never
mind a Ka-8, the handling can best be described as truck-like. Also,
I'm not sure the second seat is a feature. It's good for new pilots
to get into a single-seater (once they solo the two-seater, of
course). Builds self-reliance and keeps instructors honest about
teaching one to fly gliders, not L-13's or 2-33's.

Well, our L-13 is the best spin trainer we've got. Absolutely
fantastic spinning with the nose pointing WAY down and the ASI
showing the student that we ain't spiralling. I'm not sure
a new student really understands the "can stall at any attitude"
as well as in a many turn spin in a L-13. Well, at least not dual in
a ship costing about $10,000...

Besides that, I agree with everything else you've posted.

P.S. "ain't" = are not. Can also be translated "is not."
American vernacular for us'ns who d'wanna be concerned with
plural or singular...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

There is a skill set that a pilot must learn if he is to be able to
check himself out in a new aircraft.

What is this skill set? I'm not aware of anything specific along these
lines from the instructor/instruction manuals I've read. Generally, once
I'd trained a pilot to fly in a Blanik, he had most of the skills needed
to fly one of the usual single seaters.

Calculating W&B, determining tow rope weak link
required strengths, recovery from a spin entry,
calculating stall speed from loaded weight,
how to develop a personalized checklist,
procedures for retractable gear gliders,
hazards and emergency procedures with water ballast,
etc.

None of these skills are required for the most basic solo
in a 2-33. All of this can be briefed or calculated
or (water ballast, etc.)is unneeded ahead of time.
All of these are things that can be taught post-solo,
or in some details after licensing.

You are right that the instructor manuals do not
go extensively into how a student can be taught to
teach himself. The closest I've seen is "personal
minimums" and maybe some EAA test pilot literature.

But I think this is really one of the best
areas where an instructor can add value, mostly after
solo. Teach the student how to approach a new aircraft
and learn it's potential hazards and quirks before ever flying it.

I flew a Lancair IVP last week, and even though I flew
it with another pilot who had many hours in it, he and
I together approached it like test pilots. He wanted me to teach
him not how to fly it, but how to approach a new aircraft
that he'd never flown before. We learned a LOT together
and I helped him change his takeoff and approach procedures
to reduce risk. Learning how to fly a new aircraft is
very different from flying that aircraft to it's
full capabilities (which comes later).


--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

None of these skills are required for the most basic solo
in a 2-33.

If you're going to serve as the grammar police . . .

"None" is a contraction of "not one." It is singular, therefore, your sentence
should be, "None of these IS required . . ." etc.

Dave

Mark James Boyd wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:

There is a skill set that a pilot must learn if he is to be able to
check himself out in a new aircraft.

What is this skill set? I'm not aware of anything specific along these
lines from the instructor/instruction manuals I've read. Generally, once
I'd trained a pilot to fly in a Blanik, he had most of the skills needed
to fly one of the usual single seaters.


Calculating W&B, determining tow rope weak link
required strengths, recovery from a spin entry,
calculating stall speed from loaded weight,
how to develop a personalized checklist,
procedures for retractable gear gliders,
hazards and emergency procedures with water ballast,
etc.

None of these skills are required for the most basic solo
in a 2-33. All of this can be briefed or calculated
or (water ballast, etc.)is unneeded ahead of time.
All of these are things that can be taught post-solo,
or in some details after licensing.

I'm still puzzled. Are you saying these skills (calculating W&B, ....)
are _additional_ skills a pilot needs before "checking himself out in a
new aircraft"? They seem to be requirements learning to fly, or things
you need to be learn before flying advanced gliders. All of them can
apply to a high performance two-seaters or can be taught with ground
training. I don't see any thing specific to "checking himself out in a
new aircraft", but perhaps I don't understand what you and Michael mean
by "checking himself out in a new aircraft".

Or are you simply saying learning the minimun necessary to solo a 2-33
isn't enough to get you ready for a high performance racing glider? I"d
agree with that!


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

I'm still puzzled. Are you saying these skills (calculating W&B, ....)
are _additional_ skills a pilot needs before "checking himself out in a
new aircraft"?

I'm saying some of these skills are only post-solo, and some of these
skills (how to operate a retract) are not required for the PPL at
all. These skills are only learned by the pilot because he himself
accepts or maybe the insurance company requires some post-license training...

They seem to be requirements learning to fly, or things
you need to be learn before flying advanced gliders. All of them can
apply to a high performance two-seaters or can be taught with ground
training. I don't see any thing specific to "checking himself out in a
new aircraft", but perhaps I don't understand what you and Michael mean
by "checking himself out in a new aircraft".
Deciding how to load CG for the first flight, selecting
a long runway into the wind, choosing the launch method, researching
prior accidents, etc. are all things one can do to help
check oneself out in a new aircraft. None of this is required
by license, none of this requires dual training, but these things
and awareness of how to minimize risk flying something
completely new are developed pilot skills.

Or are you simply saying learning the minimun necessary to solo a 2-33
isn't enough to get you ready for a high performance racing glider? I"d
agree with that!

I'm saying that, and more. I'm saying that a license isn't
enough either. But it SHOULD give you the skills to form your
own training plan and an idea about how to smoothly progress to
flying higher performance aircraft with no increase in risk. As
experience grows, risk is reduced. To maintain the same level of risk,
we throw something new in. Maybe ballast, maybe retract, maybe
more sensitive pitch controls (spins easier). Pilots who understand
personal minimums and have a comprehension of how different
flight characteristics and experience relate to risk can
add one component at a time and through reading and careful
observation add components slowly so the risk doesn't "spike"
up.

When soloing, we have accepted a certain level of risk. Over
time, we maintain the same level of risk while increasing capability,
or we can just remain with our same glider, pilot, and conditions and
have the risk go down. Most pilots, at least to some level, choose to
increase capability. Instructors are an aid to some extent,
as are manuals and AD's and accident reports, etc. But the
pilot himself is the only one who can consistently enforce
a post-license training plan...

Whether this involves dual instruction, or a college aerodynamics course,
or talking to others who've flown the same glider, etc. is up to
the pilot at that point. A good advanced instructor teaches a
pilot how to use resources and generalize, not how tofly
one particular glider...teach a man to fish, right?
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

On 4/17/04 7:19 PM, in article , "ADP"
wrote:

If my 10 or so sites are not representative, then my luck must be colossally
bad.

It doesn't only happen at commercial sites. I had a similar sort of
experience at a well known glider club in southeastern Michigan a few years
ago, which caused me to delay my entry into the sport.

I moved to the western suburbs of Chicago last year and found a very
hospitable and desirable club.

From my limited experience, the old glider pilots' tales I've heard about
most glider clubs being something to avoid, rather than being attractive to
new members, may have considerable truth to it.



Jack

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:46:48 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


Soaring does take "skill, ability, and perseverance." as well as other rare
traits. Maybe that makes it "elitist" - if so, so be it. Maybe we should
take a cue from the US Marine Corp Recruiters and look for a "Few Good Men
and Women". Soaring will never be "everymans" hobby.

Bill Daniels


Bill,

As usual much, good sense here.

In Australia the GFA (Gliding Federation of Australia) promotes
soaring as being safe, cheap and suitable for anyone.
Is it any wonder the retention rate is pathetic when people find out
it is none of these?

Mike Borgelt

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:Y5Ufc.153537$K91.405035@attbi_s02...
traits. Maybe that makes it "elitist" - if so, so be it. Maybe we should
take a cue from the US Marine Corp Recruiters and look for a "Few Good Men
and Women". Soaring will never be "everymans" hobby.

Bill Daniels

Better to recruit one good pilot than ten Lennies who wash out and
then spend the rest of their lives whining about it.