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barrel roll in 172



 
 
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  #141  
Old August 3rd 06, 05:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default PED barrel roll in 172

I competition or air combat, I'd agree. But if an airplane
can roll to 60 degree bank it can be held in the roll and it
will become inverted and then because of the inertia
continue back to upright. If you stop inverted you will
have problems because most engines will quit after a short
while, you might have some reduced aileron control and you
probably didn't hold forward elevator so you split S'd out
and roll control was returned. You just could not do a
competition grade hesitation roll.

If a Pitts S-2 starts a snap roll and the prop breaks off
the hub, does that mean a Pitts S-2 can't do a snap roll?
And if a Cessna 172 does a barrel roll, does that mean that
all Cessna 172 PILOTS are capable of doing barrel rolls?


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
...
| "Not all airplanes are capable of completing all
maneuvers."
|
| If it hasn't completed a maneuver, it hasn't done it.
|
| Jose
| --
| The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the
music.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


  #142  
Old August 3rd 06, 05:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

That's good, but I've heard of one case where the ailerons
moved together up and down, not differentially. Direct lift
control, but is right up or down? I don't that airplane
actual tried to take-off.

If you box the control you can check for full and
unrestricted travel for elevator and ailerons as well as
correct rigging. I have seen wire bundles get loose and
block control travel and you might see the ailerons move
correctly, but you might not have full travel of the
elevator.

This is a killer, take off with engine failure, you can have
a good chance to land without any damage. Have the controls
locked, blocked or reversed and you're a passenger in a
missile. The WSU football team DC3 tried to take-off with
the gust locks installed on the tail, a C310 in Tulsa back
in the early 70s took off with the controls reversed and
immediately rolled into a smoking fireball. These are pilot
error. The mechanic made a mistake, but the pilot has to
check and verify... FREE and CORRECT. Test flying is any
first flight after any work is done to the airplane, from a
tire or oil change to a control replacement.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote
in message
news | "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
|
| Remember, always, control wheel left and say, as you
look,
| right one is down and the left one is up, pull backwards
and
| note not just that the stick moves, but that the elevator
us
| up. Then stick right, left one is down and the right one
is
| up then stick full forward and again verify the elevator
| moved in the correct direction.
|
| Grab stick (or yoke for those unfortunates who have them)
| and stick your thumb up. Thumb should point towards the up
| control as you move stick. Stick right, thumb points
right,
| right aileron up. Stick back, thumb points back, elevator
| up. Simple to do, simple to remember.
|
|
| Always do this, particularly after any
| maintenance. It is not rare.
|
| I've heard of several of these accidents, and was there
when
| one was caught after maintenance (cables reversed).
|
| --
| Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a
spin it will return to earth without further attention on
the part of the aeronaut.
|
| (first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer)


  #143  
Old August 3rd 06, 06:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 578
Default PED barrel roll in 172

Jim Macklin wrote:

But if an airplane
can roll to 60 degree bank it can be held in the roll and it
will become inverted and then because of the inertia
continue back to upright.


Not necessarily, and certainly not because of the inertia.

If you stop inverted you will
have problems because most engines will quit after a short
while, you might have some reduced aileron control and you
probably didn't hold forward elevator so you split S'd out
and roll control was returned.


Or more likely, if done accidentally ("didn't hold forward elevator"),
the airplane broke because of overload.

You should cease to spread dangerous wisdom about things you don't
understand. (As well as cease to top post.)

Stefan
(Removed PED, because this isn't.)
  #144  
Old August 3rd 06, 08:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default PED barrel roll in 172

I think Bill Gates like top posting, why should I change to
satisfy you?

Perhaps you don't know what you're talking about either?



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| But if an airplane
| can roll to 60 degree bank it can be held in the roll
and it
| will become inverted and then because of the inertia
| continue back to upright.
|
| Not necessarily, and certainly not because of the inertia.
|
| If you stop inverted you will
| have problems because most engines will quit after a
short
| while, you might have some reduced aileron control and
you
| probably didn't hold forward elevator so you split S'd
out
| and roll control was returned.
|
| Or more likely, if done accidentally ("didn't hold forward
elevator"),
| the airplane broke because of overload.
|
| You should cease to spread dangerous wisdom about things
you don't
| understand. (As well as cease to top post.)
|
| Stefan
| (Removed PED, because this isn't.)


  #145  
Old August 4th 06, 12:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default PED barrel roll in 172

But if an airplane
can roll to 60 degree bank it can be held in the roll and it
will become inverted and then because of the inertia
continue back to upright.


By the time that happens, the nose may well be pointing down. You'd
need to push, and you might not have enough elevator authority to keep
the nose on the horizon. I don't know; I never did it in a 172. I can
certainly imagine other planes that don't have enough authority to keep
it going.

If a Pitts S-2 starts a snap roll and the prop breaks off
the hub, does that mean a Pitts S-2 can't do a snap roll?


If it comes off every time, yes.


--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #146  
Old August 5th 06, 07:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dave Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 378
Default PED barrel roll in 172

In article l4sAg.84945$ZW3.9567@dukeread04, p51mustang[threeX12]
@xxxhotmail.calm says...
I think Bill Gates like top posting, why should I change to
satisfy you?


follow
to
hard
very
thread
the
makes
It

--
Duncan
  #147  
Old August 5th 06, 09:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Anno v. Heimburg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default PED barrel roll in 172

Jim Macklin wrote:

I think Bill Gates like top posting, why should I change to
satisfy you?


A. Because it makes the thread hard to follow.
Q. Why is top posting frowned upon?

And what does Bill Gates have to do with that?
  #148  
Old August 5th 06, 02:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,232
Default PED barrel roll in 172

Anno v. Heimburg wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:


I think Bill Gates like top posting, why should I change to
satisfy you?



A. Because it makes the thread hard to follow.
Q. Why is top posting frowned upon?

And what does Bill Gates have to do with that?


He's dyslexic.


Matt
  #149  
Old August 8th 06, 01:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dylan Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 530
Default PED barrel roll in 172

On 2006-08-05, Anno v. Heimburg wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:

I think Bill Gates like top posting, why should I change to
satisfy you?


A. Because it makes the thread hard to follow.
Q. Why is top posting frowned upon?


Also, interleaved quoting (AND trimming quotes) is called netiquette -
the manners of Usenet. Transplanted to real life, "I think Bill Gates
like top posting, why should I change to satisfy you?" could become:

"I think the airlines like straight in approaches. Why should I enter
the pattern on a 45 to downwind just to satisfy you?"

"It's too much effort to wait three seconds to hold the door open for
the person following. Why should I wait three seconds just to satisfy
them?"

"Why should I say please and thank you? Some _insert rich person here_
gets by quite OK being extremely rude, so why should I change to satisfy
you?"

"Why should I move over to the right lane? Why should I leave my
comfortable rolling roadblock position just to satisfy you?"

Additionally, top posting costs people money. Top posters usually don't
trim their quoted material which can get quite long after a while. Those
reading Usenet when they are passing time in the airport, using their
cell phone, have to pay per kilobyte.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
  #150  
Old August 8th 06, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,632
Default PED barrel roll in 172

Additionally, top posting costs people money. Top posters usually don't
trim their quoted material which can get quite long after a while. Those
reading Usenet when they are passing time in the airport, using their
cell phone, have to pay per kilobyte.


That's one place where I disagree - top posting saves money.

Although there may be a correlation between top posters and post
trimming, it is the post non-trimming that costs money (to others), not
the top posting. Actually, top posting saves money for those who, after
reading your comments, don't need to read what you were referring to
(because they remember it), and therefore don't need to download it KB
by KB. It's available however for those who need a reminder. For a
bottom posted message, one must download (often repeatededly) a message
one has already read (or at least parts of it) before getting to =any=
new stuff; that is wasteful of costly KB.

Sometimes top posting is good, sometimes bottom posting is good.

Usually interleaving is best. But there are never any absolutes.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 




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