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barrel roll in 172



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 20th 06, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
AJ
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Posts: 108
Default barrel roll in 172

Geez, Morgans, can't someone ask a simple question about whether an
aircraft can perform a roll without you jumping to the absurd
conclusion that he's going to run right out and do it? There is such a
thing as "idle curiosity."

Take your meds and calm down.

AJ

Morgans wrote:
"john smith" wrote

Certified? No.
Possible? Yes, but you will finish much lower than where you started.


Don't encourage that type of behavior with a yes. If he had to ask, he is
probably not a competent aerobatic pilot, and a blown barrel roll could
stall the plane, or overstress it, so it fails then, or later.

I'll bet he is not going to wear a parachute, either, which is required.

The answer to rolling a normal category plane should be no, always.

We don't want his, or someone else's blood on our hands.
--
Jim in NC


  #22  
Old July 20th 06, 05:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
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Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

Then why a C172 with 4 seats. Fools always carry a witness.



"Dale" wrote in message
...
| In article kMMvg.78923$ZW3.78738@dukeread04,
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
|
|
| Parachutes are required when you exceed certain
attitudes,
| the mental attitude being the most important.
|
| Read it again. Parachutes are not required if you're
solo.


  #23  
Old July 20th 06, 05:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_1_]
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Posts: 135
Default barrel roll in 172


"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
Possible? Yes, but you will finish much lower than where you started.


So, basically it's just because of a low-hp engine that the maneuver
can't be properly executed?



Andrey


Horsepower has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of an aircraft to
do a barrel roll. Airspeed and energy are all that's required and this can
be supplied even in an aircraft having no engine at all such as a glider or
a sail plane.
It helps of course if you have horsepower, but horsepower simply allows for
an entry into the roll from a higher nose attitude.
Also, barrel rolls can be done using various amounts of positive g as long
as positive g is applied to the aircraft through the roll.
The problem in discussing this issue in the context of using a normal
category airplane to do it, even considering the utility envelope if
available on such an airplane, isn't whether or not the maneuver can be
done. It's whether the pilot in such an airplane can keep the execution of
the roll inside safe parameters.
I have done barrel rolls in demonstration many times, as have pilots like
Bob Hoover, Bobby Bishop, and many others; not to mention Scotty McCray
using a sail plane. The issue as I've said isn't whether or not it can be
done in non aerobatic certificated airplanes. It most certainly can be done.
The issue is that to do ANY aerobatic maneuver SAFELY in these airplanes,
the maneuver has to be perfectly. There is little room for mistake or error.
It is extremely easy due to the lack of aerobatic performance; ie roll rate
and indeed "horsepower" to get these airplanes into extremely dangerous
recovery situations if a maneuver is botched.
This is the reason why you will get the type of answers you have been
getting on this newsgroup.
No one here knows who you are or why you are asking this question, so quite
naturally, the overwhelming reaction of the group at large is to post an
answer to you that not only protects you, but as well sets others who might
happen upon what has been said here, straight on this issue.
Dudley Henriques



  #24  
Old July 20th 06, 06:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Barney Rubble
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Posts: 76
Default barrel roll in 172

Why didn't you ask that in the original question then?


"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
Don't encourage that type of behavior with a yes. If he had to ask, he
is


I'm slightly disappointed by how quickly you've assumed my complete
brainlessness. Yes I know what FARs say, and what POH says, and no, I'm
not going to read this newsgroup and go break my neck the next morning.
What I was hoping to hear was an opinion of someone who's familiar with
what is involved in test-flying for normal/utility category and how much
it covers the type of stress imposed on the airframe and systems in a
barrel
roll.


Andrey



  #25  
Old July 20th 06, 06:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
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Posts: 3,953
Default barrel roll in 172

On 20 Jul 2006 15:22:10 GMT, Andrey Serbinenko
wrote in
::

I'm slightly disappointed by how quickly you've assumed my complete
brainlessness.


The reaction is probably due to a freshly minted private pilot who
recently posted a link to a video of him and his instructor doing a
roll (or was it a loop?) in a C-150.

Publishing such blatant disregard for regulations in a worldwide
public forum casts a bad light on all airmen, and is guaranteed to
receive the wrath of the readership of this newsgroup.

  #26  
Old July 20th 06, 07:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
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Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

Larry Dighera schrieb:

The reaction is probably due to a freshly minted private pilot who
recently posted a link to a video of him and his instructor doing a
roll (or was it a loop?) in a C-150.


Probably not. Besides, who tells you it wasn't an aerobat and the
instructor not acro rated?

Stefan
  #27  
Old July 20th 06, 07:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Flyingmonk[_1_]
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Posts: 109
Default barrel roll in 172


Jim Macklin wrote:
Didn't Lorena Bobbitt say that?


LOL. I was living in Manasas, VA when this happened. I even use the
road where Lorena dumped the "evidence" to go to/from work on a daily
basis. That road is the one in front of the bobbit's arpartment
complex. It was quite busy for a couple of days afterwards, people
wanting to see the complex and the area where the she dumped the
"evidence"

Long before Lorena did this, it is well known that Thai wives do this
to their cheating hubbys with scissors and feed the "evidence to the
ducks leaving no chance for reattachment. g

Monk

  #28  
Old July 20th 06, 07:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
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Posts: 3,953
Default barrel roll in 172

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:08:55 +0200, Stefan
wrote in : :

Besides, who tells you it wasn't an aerobat and the
instructor not acro rated?



From: "NW_PILOT"
Newsgroups:

rec.aviation.aerobatics,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviat ion.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.stud ent
Subject: Rolling a Non Aerobat 150
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:48:36 -0700
Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.168.204.123

This video was taken by my instructor with my digital cam so its
poor quality, It's my first unassissted [sic] roll
http://www.warflying.net/roll.avi

You haven't been reading this newsgroup very long.
  #29  
Old July 20th 06, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

Larry Dighera schrieb:

Besides, who tells you it wasn't an aerobat and the
instructor not acro rated?


Subject: Rolling a Non Aerobat 150


ok.

poor quality, It's my first unassissted [sic] roll


Whatever "unassisted" means. But I agree that an instructor taking a
video most probably doesn't qualify as an assistant.

You haven't been reading this newsgroup very long.


I read it occasionally. And even if I do, I don't save everything to my
brain.

Stefan
  #30  
Old July 20th 06, 08:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

Morgans schrieb:

Asking about such a procedure, IMHO shows a possible lack of judgment


Asking a question never shows any lack of judgement. Doing something
without asking may.

developing. Any reasonable,sane person would know that a barrel roll in a
stock 172 is a very bad idea,


He didn't ask whether it's a good idea, but whether it's possible.


The first safety rule of aviation I've learnt was "never assume".
Reading this group, it seems that many pilots are assuming an awful lot.

Stefan
 




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