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barrel roll in 172



 
 
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  #71  
Old July 21st 06, 10:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
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Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

Big John schrieb:

I'm glad your the expert.


I'm far from being an expert, but I have an idea, yes.

I used to do half of a barrel roll at one G and give to student under


If you can actually do a barrel roll without exceeding 1g at any point,
then you should immediately inform your local university. Or, better
yet, directly the nobel commitee. Because you've just proved that some
very basic physical laws are wrong.

Stefan
  #72  
Old July 21st 06, 02:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
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Default barrel roll in 172

T o d d P a t t i s t schrieb:

Dudley's description of the classic competition BR, the


There is no such thing as a competition barrel roll.

it a BR, what do you call it? The question is: How far off
the classic definition do you want to allow before you stop
calling it a BR?


Because the BR isn't a competition maneuvre, there is no exact
definition. The best definition is the one you cited: Fly it as if the
wheels rolled inside a barrel. But at which angle they do so, or how big
the diameter of said barrel should be, is completely undefined.

It's the same thing as with the wing over or the lazy eight.

Stefan
  #73  
Old July 21st 06, 02:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_1_]
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Default barrel roll in 172


"Stefan" wrote in message
...
T o d d P a t t i s t schrieb:

Dudley's description of the classic competition BR, the


There is no such thing as a competition barrel roll.


You are correct. Barrel rolls are not used in competition aerobatics. It's
notable that aileron rolls are also not used in competitive aerobatics.
Both of these maneuvers however are useful to demonstration pilots flying
high performance airplanes with reasonable roll rates in specific situations
where speed of execution rather than ground contact is desired.
For example, demonstrating a fighter like a P51 or an F8F, it can be an
advantage to use an aileron roll or a barrel roll during the run in to a
maneuvering pass out of a horizontal turn around. However, once into the
pass, all rolls should be slow rolls where the aircraft is "flown" all the
way through the roll with reference to height of the longitudinal axis
referenced to the ground.
This is a great help in staying alive in this environment :-)
Personally, for demonstration work, I always liked barrel rolls where it was
safe to use them. In high performance airplanes they are very graceful and
beautiful to watch from the ground and place very little strain on the
airframe.
Dudley Henriques


  #74  
Old July 21st 06, 03:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Macklin
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Posts: 2,070
Default barrel roll in 172

I've always used rudder and elevator to hold the nose on a
point when rolling, the roll being done with aileron and the
nose held on the point with sometime uncoordinated use of
the controls. I've never flown in competition. Never done
slow or hesitation rolls. If I had my way, I'd do a hundred
hammerheads for every roll.

Which acro site, give a link and I'll check it out.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
|
| Visual aid... take a model airplane, hold it between
your
| finger tips on the nose and tail. Rotate it so it turns
on
| the fuselage. That's a plain roll or aileron roll.
|
| According to the acro site someone posted before, that is
a slow roll. An
| aileron roll requires establishing a slight up line,
putting ailerons over,
| but not trying to hold the line with the elevator or
rudder, so that when
| the rotation stops at wings level, you are on a slight
down line.
| --
| Jim in NC
|


  #75  
Old July 21st 06, 03:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ron Natalie
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Posts: 1,175
Default barrel roll in 172

Jim Macklin wrote:
Then why a C172 with 4 seats. Fools always carry a witness.


The most dangerous incidents in aviation are often proceded
by "Watch this."
  #76  
Old July 21st 06, 03:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Moore
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Posts: 291
Default barrel roll in 172

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote
A barrel roll is often described as: "imagine the wheels of
the aircraft rolling on the inside of a barrel." In
Dudley's description of the classic competition BR, the
track of those wheels is going perpendicular to the axis of
the barrel at the top, straight down the axis of the barrel
at the beginning and end, and the barrel is perfectly round.
In Dudley's expanded description of the BR (as any roll in
3D) the track might not be perpendicular at the top and the
barrel might not be perfectly round.


Todd, in your example, the wheels would "scuff" around the
inside of the barrel. In order to roll around the inside of
the barrel. The starting heading must be some number of degrees
off the axis of the barrel, 45 degrees in the classic example.

At the top of the barrel, the heading would have changed by 90
degrees, but would be 45 degrees off the axis of the barrel on
the other side.

Bob Moore
  #77  
Old July 21st 06, 03:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stefan
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Posts: 578
Default barrel roll in 172

T o d d P a t t i s t schrieb:

There is no such thing as a competition barrel roll.


The only aerobatics competition I've flown was in radio
control airplanes in the 1970's. It was pretty informal,
but we flew BR's and were judged on them.


Of course you can do competitions any way you want and judge whatever
you like. (And barrel rolls are beautiful to watch.) In this respect, I
should have written "not an FAI competition figure".

BTW, where I live and fly, this year's known programme for the beginners
class in glider aerobatics contains a wing over. Not an FAI figure
either. No problem, at the briefing, the chief judge will explain what
he thinks a wing over should look like, and then it will be judged
according to his guide lines.

Stefan
  #78  
Old July 21st 06, 03:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ron Natalie
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Posts: 1,175
Default barrel roll in 172

Big John wrote:
Andrey

As has been said in all the posts, the short answer is NO. 172 is not
certified to do barrel rolls.

However I can barrel roll a 172 only pulling 1 G which puts no more
load on airframe than straight and level flight. I have thousands of
hours to back up my statement.

No you can not.

It's not possible to even start the roll without going greater
than 1G.
  #79  
Old July 21st 06, 03:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_3_]
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Posts: 407
Default barrel roll in 172


"Jim Macklin" wrote

Visual aid... take a model airplane, hold it between your
finger tips on the nose and tail. Rotate it so it turns on
the fuselage. That's a plain roll or aileron roll.


According to the acro site someone posted before, that is a slow roll. An
aileron roll requires establishing a slight up line, putting ailerons over,
but not trying to hold the line with the elevator or rudder, so that when
the rotation stops at wings level, you are on a slight down line.
--
Jim in NC

  #80  
Old July 21st 06, 03:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ron Natalie
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Posts: 1,175
Default barrel roll in 172

Matt Whiting wrote:

Your thousands of hours aside, this is simply an incorrect statement. A
barrel roll requires flying a loop and you can't fly a loop at 1 G. It
sounds like you are describing an aileron roll.

You can't even do an aileron roll without exceeding 1G.
Small g's sure, but you gotta go 1 to do just about anything.
 




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