Supercooled Water - More on Icing

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There has never been a case of rudder reversal caused by icing.

Wrong. Flow seperation due to icing is normal.

Julian Scarfe wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...


However, keep in mind that most thermometers have some error in them.
So, even though ice doesn't form above 0C, it may form above 0C as
indicated on your airplane thermometer.


Absolutely true, but remember that your thermometer is one of the easiest
instruments in the aircraft to calibrate. The ATIS gives the temperature on
the ground before flight -- it's well worth a check.

Julian Scarfe



Yes, but where is their thermometer? On the ground near the level of
your plane, or on top of the tower? Makes a lot of difference. Also,
the error may be a slope error, not just a offset. It may be off by 2
degrees at 70 degrees, but less than that at 32 (or more, but typically
error gets less at lower temps).

I prefer to watch things very carefully when the temp is between about 0
and 35F. Most ice I've picked up was between 26 and 32 as indicated by
my Skylane thermometer. No idea how accurate it was, but I think it was
within a couple of degrees which is close enough for most purposes. I
make decisions based on what is happening on the wing, not what the
thermometer says, generally anyway.


Matt

Bob Gardner wrote:
That is the icing rule all pilots should remember: There are no
hard-and-fast rules with regard to airframe icing.

Well, I think there is one ... get out of the condition causing the
airframe icing ASAP!


Matt

Please cite a single reference of rudder reversal caused by icing.

Mike
MU-2

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
There has never been a case of rudder reversal caused by icing.

Wrong. Flow seperation due to icing is normal.

Julian Scarfe

Absolutely true, but remember that your thermometer is one of the easiest
instruments in the aircraft to calibrate. The ATIS gives the temperature
on
the ground before flight -- it's well worth a check.

Although the temperature at the ATIS station and the temperature where you
thermometer is located may quite a few degrees off. Kinda like setting your
Heading Indicator when lined up on the runway.

Hilton

In article . net,
"Hilton" wrote:

Julian Scarfe

Absolutely true, but remember that your thermometer is one of the easiest
instruments in the aircraft to calibrate. The ATIS gives the temperature
on
the ground before flight -- it's well worth a check.

Although the temperature at the ATIS station and the temperature where you
thermometer is located may quite a few degrees off. Kinda like setting your
Heading Indicator when lined up on the runway.

Hilton



Not to mention that:

1) The ATIS could be up to an hour old

2) The ATIS temperature was taken with a thermometer in a carefully
designed enclosure which keeps it out of direct sun and wind. Your OAT
probe has none of those protections.

On the other hand, a slurry of crushed ice and water makes a pretty good
home-made 0C temperature reference. If you wanted to, I suppose you
could use that to calibrate your OAT-o-meter.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Please cite a single reference of rudder reversal caused by icing.

It is all part of the FAA's results from their icing study. Brownlee
expressed FAA's surprise that the results of their experiment were the
opposite of what their expectations had been. If you mean that you want me
to do a google search for you, I think you know better than that.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Yes, but where is their thermometer? On the ground near the level of
your plane, or on top of the tower? Makes a lot of difference.

Fair point. At least in my part of the world, reported temps are supposed
to be 2 metre temps (measured about 6 ft above the ground). But as others
have pointed out there may be differences because of the local measurement
environment.

I still think it's well worth making a comparison between your OAT and the
reported temperature. It's not difficult to spot consistent deviations of a
couple of degrees.

Julian Scarfe

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:
Please cite a single reference of rudder reversal caused by icing.

It is all part of the FAA's results from their icing study.

LOL

No, I want you to provice a single reference of rudder reversal caused by
icing which you are contending is a major problem. Not only is it not a
major problem, it has never occured

Mike
MU-2

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Please cite a single reference of rudder reversal caused by icing.

It is all part of the FAA's results from their icing study. Brownlee
expressed FAA's surprise that the results of their experiment were the
opposite of what their expectations had been. If you mean that you want
me
to do a google search for you, I think you know better than that.