High Performance Single Engine Choices

I think the $15K you refer to is for the SR22 w/ a hull value of $350K
with
low time, non instrument rated pilots/students.

Well, I don't know if 500 hours is considered "low-time". But if what you
say is true, tripling the insurance rates simply for lack of an IR seems
ridiculous, given the fact that the couple in question is on their third
plane -- all accident/incident-free. Many years of perfectly safe VFR
flight, in three different planes, should count for something.

Insurance people drive me nuts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 9-Dec-2003, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Well, I don't know if 500 hours is considered "low-time". But if what you
say is true, tripling the insurance rates simply for lack of an IR seems
ridiculous, given the fact that the couple in question is on their third
plane -- all accident/incident-free. Many years of perfectly safe VFR
flight, in three different planes, should count for something.


My guess -- and that's all it is; I don't know a great deal about the
insurance biz -- is that the underwriters look at expensive, high
performance airplanes, with lots of expensive, high performance IFR
avionics, and assume that VFR pilots will be tempted to fly them in at least
marginal VFR conditions, with deadly results. Unfortunately, VFR flight in
IFR conditions continues to be a top cause of accidents. If your friends
want to own and fly a high performance airplane they might be well served to
get an IFR rating just on the basis of reduced cost for insurance. That
their investment would then have much greater utility would of course be a
bonus.

In my case, when my partners got their IFR tickets the insurance premiums on
our Arrow went down significantly. I imagine that the difference for
something like an SR-22 would be dramatic.

--
-Elliott Drucker

Jay,

and then pay $15K per year to insure
it.


where do you get this number? I haven't heard of anyone paying that
much for a Cirrus.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay,

tripling the insurance rates simply for lack of an IR seems
ridiculous, given the fact that the couple in question is on their third
plane -- all accident/incident-free.


Well, not really. VFR into IMC leads the accident statistics. And I don't
understand the couple in question: doing the IR is a no-brainer costwise,
with that kind of differential.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

and then pay $15K per year to insure
it.

That's the number quoted to my 500 hour, VFR, incident/accident-free friend
by AOPA.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

wrote
My guess -- and that's all it is; I don't know a great deal about the
insurance biz -- is that the underwriters look at expensive, high
performance airplanes, with lots of expensive, high performance IFR
avionics, and assume that VFR pilots will be tempted to fly them in at least
marginal VFR conditions, with deadly results.

I think what you say is true, but incomplete. There are basically
three ways of dealing with reduced ceilings/visibilities - just say
no, go IFR, or scud run. Someone flying an expensive and fast
airplane clearly bought it to go places - he's not going to be too
interested in just saying no. Lacking an instrument rating, he won't
be able to file IFR. Scud running works OK in airplanes that
COMFORTABLY fly at low speed and can, in a pinch, land off airport and
take off again without damage, but those kinds of airplanes are NOT
fast. It's nothing special about the Cirrus - getting insurance in
ANY fast airplane (Bonanza, Comanche, Viking, Mooney) is signifcantly
more expensive without an instrument rating. And no - hundreds of
hours of accident-free VFR flying don't make any difference if they're
in a C-172 or Cherokee, because the things you can get away with in a
C-172 or Cherokee are going to kill you in a Bonanza or a Cirrus.

Unfortunately, VFR flight in
IFR conditions continues to be a top cause of accidents.

Not really. Check out the Nall report - all weather related accidents
(including VFR into IMC) are barely a quarter of the accident picture.
And instrument rated private pilots (less than 20% of the private
pilot population) don't seem to have a better record on VFR-into-IMC
accidents than those who are not rated.

Michael

Unfortunately, VFR flight in
IFR conditions continues to be a top cause of accidents.

Not really. Check out the Nall report - all weather related accidents
(including VFR into IMC) are barely a quarter of the accident picture.

If you look only at *FATAL* accidents, I think you will find the percentage
of weather related accidents (VFR into IMC) will be much higher.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:5UFBb.491370$HS4.3767341@attbi_s01...
and then pay $15K per year to insure
it.

That's the number quoted to my 500 hour, VFR, incident/accident-free
friend
by AOPA.

Man for those prices you could make a good down payment on a 100 acres and
build your own airstrip.

Dashi

Jay Honeck wrote:

That's the number quoted to my 500 hour, VFR, incident/accident-free friend
by AOPA.

AOPA is not the best choice for many of these planes. The last person I spoke
to at AOPA about insurance was honest enough to state that their company could
not give me a competitive rate on my Maule. Your friend should call a real
insurance broker.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

(ISLIP) wrote in message ...
I was always under the impression that hull insurance ran about 1 1/2 - 2% of
a/c value. My SR20 is insured for $250K at about $4100. The liability portion
is roughly another $600.
I think the $15K you refer to is for the SR22 w/ a hull value of $350K with
low time, non instrument rated pilots/students. The rate drops sharply with the
rating and time in type. That is based on numerous posts on the public & member
forums of www.cirruspilots.org

John
SR20

Mooney insurance for IFR pilots with 100 hours of retract is about 500
for liability and 1% of hull value. A 250K Mooney would cost about
$3K to insure.