Talk me out of this...

Bob.. did I by any chance chat w/you at the EAA museum a couple months ago??

Robert A. Barker wrote:
"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.



Paul: I bought a 1966 C150 last year for $18,500.
4275 TT 300 SMOH Paint and interior comletly redone in 1975 and flown by
one owner since.The 150
certainly has limited space and limited range but it is
plenty for my wife and I.We are both in our 70's so we
don't worry about space for the kids.

I just wanted to give you an idea of what you can find if you really
look.I think you are going to spend big bucks
just to keep this one going. I love my 150 but I wouldn't
pay that kind of money for a run out one.

Best of luck
Bob Barker N8749S

THANKS a ton for all the responses. This place is great!

I have just read each and every line of each and every one of them and I
can say that at the moment I am certainly considerably less enthused
about this deal- I would say shying away from it, but I will do some
thinking.

I should have said a bit about my mission in the original post. It's
basically time-building with XC mostly within a 100 nm radius or so.
While a four-seater would definitely be nice, most of the time it will
be me & the girlfriend (she flew with me first time today and loved it)
with no real need for two more seats. I had actually been drawn to
150s/152s because of the fuel economy, but on second thought I can just
throttle back a 172 or Cherokee to 55% if I want to, right?

Performance is not a big concern right now. Although, after the flying
I did today (3.7 on the hobbs, fighting 40 knot headwinds part of the
trip), I can at least say I don't want to go any *slower* than a 152
does. :-)

I have to admit that I have not up to this point considered Pipers much
at all. I just certainly start looking that way as well, especially if
they do give more bang for the buck.

I guess the price is not really as good as I'd thought. I was figuring
it as $17,200 with the hangaring which did seem at least competitive.
And the rest of the plane is indeed in good shape. But- to those who
pointed to the fact that it's been a trainer- I hear ya. That does
bother me. I have seen what students do to airplanes and 25 years is a
long time!

In short, I definitely won't be doing anything soon and my feeling is
that I will likely pass this one by, or possibly make them an offer
considerably below asking.

~Paul

First, just how big are you?
Are you going to be able to take someone else with you without having
to take your wallet out of your back pocket to have enough room?

I'm 5'10" and 170lb. (I *am* the FAA standard pilot.) The occupant of
the passanger seat is 130lb.

Second, are you planning on using the airplane for travel?

Yes.

Depending on your age, the short legs due to fuel supply won't be a
problem. If you have a strong bladder, and want to take someone with
you, you won't be taking much luggage with you. Two people and camping
gear to Oshkosh? I don't know!!!

Short legs?? I can fly with my pax and light baggage with full fuel and
be under gross (well, very close, or a bit over, but certainly safe)!

With some real baggage I can still get 2 hour legs with reserve which I
could live with. I'm cursed with a weak bladder anyway.

You already have your certificate, you don't need a trainer.
Look for a four seater, more options, better resale.

Definitely leaning that way now.

That is correct.


MRQB wrote:

I am no expert but i belive the 0-235 in a 152 is a 2,400 TBO

Really? 150 hp in a 152- that must be a fun airplane!

BTIZ wrote:

I am no expert but i belive the 0-235 in a 152 is a 2,400 TBO



you could be right... it's been so long since I've flown a straight 152...

most around here have been upgraded to 150HP conversions..

BT

Well, a new 235 is about $20K, and I'd thought a major overhaul was
about half that, but apparantly I was wrong given the number of people
in this thread who're telling me I am.

Jeff wrote:

sounds like that engine is about due a overhaul.
I dont know what an engine costs for a 152, but you may want to check on
that so you know about how much your going to have to invest in the new
engine.

Ya, ya, ya, they're slow! :-) (I felt like I was damn-near friggin
hovering on the way back into Milwaukee today from Appleton, with winds
190 around 45 knots. GPS said 65 knots groundspeed tho.)

Jeff wrote:

you know, I once heard a guy who said he saw a 152 actually hover over the
runway.
kinda windy day, the guy cut power to land and the plane kinda just hovered
there.

on windy days, there is this 152 up at my airport, the thing looks like a
kite flapping around on its tiedowns.

You're kidding, right? Okay, instead of the normal candy coated
responses, here's your slap on the back of the head.

Where the hell were you when I was thinking about sticking that fork in
the toaster?

That' their job. They need to unload a tired old piece of junk that's
already been amortized by their accountant long ago!

You're assuming a bit there.

10K? Do you want a junk yard engine or do you want an engine you'll
be comfortable on takeoff with? $10K MAY get you a field overhaul if

Junkyard.. wait, no. The second one.

everything else is in good shape. If the engine is original, it has
8000 hours on it. Don't let anyone bull**** you on this. How are the
cylinders? How is the crank and cam? What about the induction system
and mags? Starter and alternator? Don't fall for that 10K rebuild
crap. It's for cheapskates that don't give a rat's ass about their
own safety.

I don't think the engine is the original. I really doubt it. I do know
that they recently replaced the 235 on another 152 with a brand new
(remanufactured) Lycoming.

To a certain point. The plane is being used as a trainer and the
engine is being abused as part of normal training. And the engine is
only a third of the airplane. What about all the rest of the
twisting, yanking, pulling, banging and slamming on the airframe
itself?

Yeah, I worry about that. I worry about the landing gear especially.

They could very well be, but I'll bet you don't get into their
finances and don't see the real picture. Nobody except a private
owner will take care of a plane as well as a private owner. Besides,

Makes sense.

What you never see are the pop ups that occur when owning. All those
items that you'll authorized to be fixed when you're the main guy.
And, have you figured who you're going to use as a mechanic? As long
as you keep the present one on, you'll never be his number one
concern. If you can't do the work yourself, a simple tire change will
cost you over $400. An oil change can easily cost $250. Need a prop?
Fork over another $2K!

$250 for an oil change?! Now, that's something I can legally do myself-
why on earth would I pay that for it.

Paul, unless you have $35K to **** away, I'd start doing some
research. First and foremost is your mission. If it's Saturday
burgers for the next bunch of years, the 152 is okay. If it's flying

It pretty much is.

over to grandma's, you're SOL. What you need to do is start looking
at the big picture which includes, resale (you'll want to upgrade in
about a year, guaranteed!), replacement parts availability, AD's,
SB's, insurance costs, hangar, annual costs, equipment, accessories,
etc. As others have stated, when you get the engine taken care of,
you'll have an 8000 hour $35,000 152, and you haven't even mentioned
avionics which could cost you $5000 in a blink of an eye!

My thoughts:
1. Too many hours for any plane. When you're done with it, you'll
need to part it out to recoup any of your investment
2. A trainer all its life is a very, very bad thing.
3. Avionics?
4. You need to get this for $10K or have them supply an overhauled
engine for the $19K to even consider the deal.
5. Run, don't walk from this one.
6. Trade A Plane. See what the world is really like in this
"recovering" economy. $35K buys a whole lot of airplane, including
good 172's if you're a high wing guy. If you're a low winger, the
Cherokees may be more bang for your buck, and more in your price
desires. If you can't come up with the cash, finance. You'll be
doing it anyway, but on your credit card after the bills start coming
in.
7. If you're ready to buy, you'll walk away from dozens before you
find the one you want.
8. Unless you fly regularly (200 hours a year) you'll never
cost-justify the purchase vs. renting, so take that out of the
equation.

Your advice is being considered, sir. As to your last point- I'm a bit
curious about that as I normally see a lower number brandied about as
the break-even.

Expect for the TT figure, that aircraft looks very comparable to the one
under discussion. You're at $28K with a new engine- mine would be much
higher than that. But, then again, it would be higher. I guess I was
somewhat mistaken about the cost of overhaul which is obviously a major
miscalulation.

CFLav8r wrote:

Paul,
I don't know where you live but after a quick search on
aerotraderonline.com I found many planes in the price range that you
mentioned.
Here is one example of many:
1980 CESSNA 152 II, 4135 TT, 130 SMOH , Very Clean, Low Time,
$28,000, 1998 Paint, 2001 Int. Inspection Status: March 2003 Annual.

And there's even better deals than that if you look.
Try Trade-A-Plane or ASO.com

David (KORL)

Don't think I care for the challenge of a taildragger at the moment. I
think that 140 would have been a bear to handle on the icy runways I
dealt with today, for instance.

A 152 is a great little airplane. Have you checked out a Cessna 140?
Taildraggers are a lot of fun and always a challenge to fly.

Paul Folbrecht wrote in message thlink.net...

Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.

Ideally I'd like to go into this with a partner but I haven't been able
to find one and I do honestly think they'll unload this aircraft before
too long. Not sure if the price or terms are negotiable but I would
like to try to squeeze a second year of hangaring out of them.

Concerns:

- Engine has only a few hundred hours till TBO. I know that means
dropping another $10K or so within a few years.
- Plane has been abused by students (including me) for 25 years now (the
FBO bought it new).
- The only A&Ps I know that I could have take a look at it work for this
FBO.

Pros:

- The plane flies a lot; I know that's good for the engine.
- The FBO is reputable and I know they do their maintenance and take
care of squawks.

I'm torn in general on renting vs. owning right now. I anticipate
flying about 100 hours/year- by my calculations that's right around the
break-even point. However, knowing you're always going to have an
aircraft available to fly, even on short notice, is something you can't
put a direct dollar figure on.

I know this issue in general has been beat to death more than anything
else here, and I've read a lot of the old threads, but any and all
comments welcome. I'm much newer at all this than most of you here.

~Paul