ADSB out in tow planes

I was actually talking about using ForeFlight for navigation on an aero retrieve. Not to find the glider. Generally we only do aero retrieves to airports. If a glider lands in a farmers field they generally have to go get it with their trailer. So my question is what app can I display FLARM on in an iPad? I picture using the FLARM display app for towing and Foreflight for navigation.

I’ll get the one tow plane we have ADSB out in registered on the FLARM net.

And you guys need to relax about the fact that’s this has been discussed before. More and more tow planes are getting ADSB out. As discussed most of the glider FLARM units in the US have ADSB in. This is something glider pilots and tow plane operators need to be aware of and resolve.

I just got back from Ephrata and was reading the latest issue of Soaring. I noticed a letter from our friends over at PSSA. Their Chief Tow Pilot wrote on this exact issue.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 11:15:50 AM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
I was actually talking about using ForeFlight for navigation on an aero retrieve. Not to find the glider. Generally we only do aero retrieves to airports. If a glider lands in a farmers field they generally have to go get it with their trailer. So my question is what app can I display FLARM on in an iPad? I picture using the FLARM display app for towing and Foreflight for navigation.

I’ll get the one tow plane we have ADSB out in registered on the FLARM net.

This is probably the wrong way to think about providing traffic data/warnings from FLARM in a towplane. You want a dedicated FLARM traffic display mounted high up on the panel (or just a PowerFLARM portable) in the towplane and audio wired though your radio/audio panel. Tow pilots are not going to want to fart around with complicated soaring software on an iPad just to see traffic.

And again FLARMnet is not likely to help the glider on tow getting false alerts from towplanes ADS-B Out.

If you want to use a iPad with Foreflight in the towplane for other purposes, for all the reasons I mentioned before, and more, I would get a portable Stratus or Stratux receiver.

I am not that worried about the glider on tow. They can turn their FLARM down or off.

The ideal installation on a tow plane would be a PowerFLARM brick with external antennas. It doesn’t look like there’s any way to display FLARM on an iPad so there would need to be a simple to use display mounted on the glare shield. I was just looking at the FLARM website and didn’t see a lot of options. How is FLARM normally displayed in a glider. (My glider doesn’t have it)

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 12:00:23 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
I am not that worried about the glider on tow. They can turn their FLARM down or off.

The ideal installation on a tow plane would be a PowerFLARM brick with external antennas. It doesn’t look like there’s any way to display FLARM on an iPad so there would need to be a simple to use display mounted on the glare shield. I was just looking at the FLARM website and didn’t see a lot of options. How is FLARM normally displayed in a glider. (My glider doesn’t have it)

Uh oh. You have to read past posts on r.a.s. to find that out. Like the ones immediately above where I describe those -)

Are you talking about this statement?
“PowerFLARM is aimed at the glider not GA community, PowerFLARM talks FLARM serial protocol and you can display that ADS-B traffic on any devices that supports that protocol (e.g. LXNav FLARMView displays, Air Avionics traffic displays, LXNav flight computers, ClearNav flight computers, Naviter Oudie, PDA/PNAs running soaring software, etc.) �

So will all of those options display FLARM targets?

Look I am a power guy that’s transitioning to gliders for retirement. So I have questions. I just got my first glider specific computer an Oudie a couple of weeks ago.

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 11:25:11 AM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
And you guys need to relax about the fact that’s this has been discussed before. More and more tow planes are getting ADSB out. As discussed most of the glider FLARM units in the US have ADSB in. This is something glider pilots and tow plane operators need to be aware of and resolve.

I just got back from Ephrata and was reading the latest issue of Soaring. I noticed a letter from our friends over at PSSA. Their Chief Tow Pilot wrote on this exact issue.

Yes the issue is important to let folks know about, but it would be better to do that in way not to add yet more confusion. The letter in Soaring Magazine unfortunately missed that this a known issue and FLARM have already commented on a way to resolve this. It may not be a way that people like, but knowing that is a lot better than not.

And to avoid confusion there, PowerFLARM does not "interrogate ADS-B". And I'm not sure what contacting the FAA will help here, or what they are expected to do about an unregulated ADS-B receiver.

I would hope some of the more technology geeky glider pilots in the broad Seattle/Pacific North West area already know about this issue, or know folks to ask (e.g. FLARM dealers, or Dave, or me). And if not PSSA then SGC folk likely do (hi Craig, Kelvyn).

Look I am a power guy that’s transitioning to gliders for retirement. So I have questions. I just got my first glider specific computer an Oudie a couple of weeks ago.

Hi Charles -

Welcome to gliding! I have a PowerFlarm - S8 - Oudie set up. I don't have the option of turning off the PowerFlarm.

As part of my "get in the glider" checklist, I turn the Oudie volume down to 20% when I adjust the Oudie's altitude. On tow, I just ignore the written warning messages and the audibles are easy to ignore. Once off tow, the warnings go away and I turn my Oudie volume up to 80% for the rest of the flight.

I hope that helps.

Lou

On Saturday, June 2, 2018 at 12:18:26 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
Are you talking about this statement?
“PowerFLARM is aimed at the glider not GA community, PowerFLARM talks FLARM serial protocol and you can display that ADS-B traffic on any devices that supports that protocol (e.g. LXNav FLARMView displays, Air Avionics traffic displays, LXNav flight computers, ClearNav flight computers, Naviter Oudie, PDA/PNAs running soaring software, etc.) �

So will all of those options display FLARM targets?

Look I am a power guy that’s transitioning to gliders for retirement. So I have questions. I just got my first glider specific computer an Oudie a couple of weeks ago.

Yes. And they also show ADS-B (1090ES Out only) targets *when received by a PowerFLARM*.

This whole area is unfortunately a quagmire of confusing stuff. The soaring/FLARM related stuff is very specialized and the European vendors largely do an poor job explaining how their stuff will or won't work in the more complex USA ADS-B environment. Be careful their reading product specs/claims and assuming too much from that before talking to folks who know what actually works.

And you are going in multiple directions here. I would encourage you to start by talking with local glider pilots who have PowerFLARM installs and have them show you/demo what they have. You may be able to borrow a Portable unit to fly with in your glider or towplane or at least play with on the ground.

Your Naviter Oudie will display FLARM traffic data (FLARM and ADS-B/1090ES In traffic data from a connected PowerFLARM). You can find out more in the Oudie/SeeYou documentation look for "FLARM Radar", they mean FLARM traffic display by that... I wish Naviter would just call it "FLARM traffic".

Some folks (like me) would prefer a more dedicated FLARM traffic display on their panel even if they also have that data going to something like an Oudie.

The PowerFLARM might simply drive a Oudie over hard wired serial connection and providing basic GPS as well as traffic data to the Oudie, more sophisticated installs will combine data from a soaring vario/flight computer and traffic data from the PowerFLARM. The moment you start scratching this it likely gets complex. And you are missing a decade or so of experience folks here have with this stuff, so again your local PowerFLARM users are likely the best place to start. And once you get a better idea of all the possible options and what you want to do then one of the USA PowerFLARM dealers is the place to go. They should know what works with what, all the bits you need, and how to configure stuff or how to get questions answered if they don't know.

XCSoar will display FLARM targets, but it may only work on Android devices.

On 6/2/2018 12:15 PM, Charles Longley wrote:
I was actually talking about using ForeFlight for navigation on an aero retrieve. Not to find the glider. Generally we only do aero retrieves to airports. If a glider lands in a farmers field they generally have to go get it with their trailer. So my question is what app can I display FLARM on in an iPad? I picture using the FLARM display app for towing and Foreflight for navigation.

I’ll get the one tow plane we have ADSB out in registered on the FLARM net.

--
Dan, 5J