High altitude Helicopter work

The footage clearly
showed the machine hovering, attempting to get in close, then things got
bad. It was on Mt Hood or Mt Rainier.
Right down the street at Mount Rainier.


--
(¯`·._.· £ãrrÿ ·._.·´¯)




"steve gallacci" wrote in message
...

There was an example of that which made the rounds last year. There was
a high
altitude rescue involving an H-60. The helicopter simply dropped out of
the
sky, hit the mountain and rolled down the slope.
If anyone has a clip of that please post a link.

Actually, that was a windy situation on a very steep slope that ended
with a rotor strike (if I remember correctly). The footage clearly
showed the machine hovering, attempting to get in close, then things got
bad. It was on Mt Hood or Mt Rainier.
But many helios have fairly limited ceilings and simply can't go very
high.

In article ,
"Larry" wrote:

The footage clearly
showed the machine hovering, attempting to get in close, then things got
bad. It was on Mt Hood or Mt Rainier.
Right down the street at Mount Rainier.



Nope, it was on Mt. Hood.


Among many other links....

http://www.traditionalmountaineering..._HeliCrash.htm




--Mike

steve gallacci wrote:

Actually, that was a windy situation on a very steep slope that ended
with a rotor strike (if I remember correctly). The footage clearly
showed the machine hovering, attempting to get in close, then things got
bad. It was on Mt Hood or Mt Rainier.

Mt. Hood. There was a fierce cold air downdraft like a microburst and I recall
some other problem.

-- Charlie Springer

On 20 Nov 2003 04:10:22 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

steve gallacci wrote:

Actually, that was a windy situation on a very steep slope that ended
with a rotor strike (if I remember correctly). The footage clearly
showed the machine hovering, attempting to get in close, then things got
bad. It was on Mt Hood or Mt Rainier.

Mt. Hood. There was a fierce cold air downdraft like a microburst and I recall
some other problem.

-- Charlie Springer

January 13, 2003
"The Army Reserve company of Fort Lewis-based CH-47D helicopters has
been called up to active duty. The unit's 200 or so soldiers and most
of its 15 Chinooks will head out to an undisclosed assignment overseas
sometime in the next ..."

Jun 26, 2002 Mt. Rainier, Washington 14,408 feet.
"Unlike a similar crash last month on Oregon's Mount Hood, the crew
members involved in Tuesday's accident walked away uninjured. The two
rescuers in the Bell Jet Ranger later trudged up the mountain to
assist an injured climber.
Both the twin-bladed Chinook and the smaller Jet Ranger helicopters
are routinely used during rescues on Mount Rainier. Chinooks, capable
of flying to Rainier's summit, are provided ..."

May 30, 2002 Mt. Hood Oregon 11,240 ft.
"The helicopter could be seen wobbling before rotors apparently
clipped the edge of the mountain as it attempted to maneuver for a
rescue above 10,000 feet shortly before 2 p.m. PT..."
"...The Pave Hawk helicopter, a highly modified version of the Army
Black Hawk, plummeted into the snow on the side of a ridge where it
rolled over and over until it came to a stop at the bottom..."
"...The helicopter was part of the 939th Air Force Reserve Rescue
Wing, and was in training for assignment in the war on terror
overseas, Pentagon officials said. Pave Hawks are most often used in
combat rescue missions..."

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: "Simon Robbins"
Date: 11/17/2003 12:46 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"Allen" wrote in message
. ..
I am curious about use of a chopper in the higher altitudes of
Afghanistan. The Canadians are in Kabul and the word is our Griffin, a
Bell 412 helicopter, can't work in the mountains. Anyone now why.....
lack of power at altitude, lack of oxygen ?

Rather than lack of oxygen, I imagine it would be that the lower air
pressure simply means the rotor is unable to achieve lift without an
unacceptable increase in rotor speed, which would likely overstress the
engines and gearbox.

Have a look at:

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co...z412EP_spec_de
tail.htm
and you'll see the service ceilings. Not much room there to take mountains
into account, less so with a full load.

Si

There was an example of that which made the rounds last year. There was a high
altitude rescue involving an H-60. The helicopter simply dropped out of the
sky, hit the mountain and rolled down the slope.
If anyone has a clip of that please post a link.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The French built a High Altitide Helicopter called the Aerospatiale
SA-315B Lama. Hovered at 17000 ft. It was for the Indian Airforce.
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/EHI...eets/lama.html

It involved installing the Rotor and Mechanicals of the Allouette III
into the body of the Allouette II.

The Russian Helocopters (eg Mi 24 Hind) becuase of their 5 blade
rotors have better high altitude performance than their 4 bladed US
equivalents.

Some Russian sounding guy posted stuff from a Russian AF General with
Grudging but usefull Advice on this just before the Afghanistan
invasion.

On 19 Nov 2003 18:32:38 -0800, (The
Enlightenment) wrote:

The French built a High Altitide Helicopter called the Aerospatiale
SA-315B Lama. Hovered at 17000 ft. It was for the Indian Airforce.

I think this airplane ended up being used on Denali by the US Forestry
Service rescue folks. I read a book by a woman who had climbed Denali
at the time of a rescue effort and she mentioned seeing this helo. If
only I could find the book again--the only thing I remember is that
she used both her first and middle names, which isn't much help when
trying to track a book down on Amazon.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

Mary Shafer wrote in message . ..
On 19 Nov 2003 18:32:38 -0800, (The
Enlightenment) wrote:

The French built a High Altitide Helicopter called the Aerospatiale
SA-315B Lama. Hovered at 17000 ft. It was for the Indian Airforce.

I think this airplane ended up being used on Denali by the US Forestry
Service rescue folks. I read a book by a woman who had climbed Denali
at the time of a rescue effort and she mentioned seeing this helo. If
only I could find the book again--the only thing I remember is that
she used both her first and middle names, which isn't much help when
trying to track a book down on Amazon.

Mary

One of the targets or challenges for Helicopter designers should be an
out of ground effect hover of 30,000 feet with a usefull load (1
stetcher patient and medical orderly). This in theory would allow
landing on Everest.

In a world of bizzare records this must be one of the more usefull
quests as it would allow helicopter rescue anywhere.

Can Steve Fosset or Richard Branson be interested?

The other quests is some sort of ducted fan platform that can hover
along side buildings or land in very confined urban environemnts. We
need to be able to land on a suburban main road or city road.
Helicopters can't do it because of rotor clearence and safety issues
while ambulences can't do it because of traffic.

To save peoples lives you must get there within 10-15 minutes.

I am suprised that this hasn't been achieved. The Pieseki flying
Jeeps worked although they couldn't land on uneven ground or in high
gusts.

When modified with modern quadraplex fly by wire controls and
stability augmentation systems (accelerometers and solid state MEMS
and laser gyros), modern gas turbines and lighter modern materials
they must surely be able to solve the problems of the earlier Pieseki
Jeeps.

Modern 3rd Generation Cellphones will have "location serivices".
Imagine being able to load emergency call coordinates into the
naviagation system of such an air-ambulance jeep. A rooftop in a
small hospital could provide a takeoff to touchdown response of 5
minutes out to 10 miles.

That even makes economic sense. If every city in the USA with more
than 1 million people had one of these what would the market be?

Mary, Amazon has 150,000 books in digital form so a text search can be made. I
don't know if the system is online yet but they are aiming for over a million
books. They think it will be the best way to sell books ever, and they may be
right.

-- Charlie Springer

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
om...
(B2431) wrote in message
...

SNIP

The French built a High Altitide Helicopter called the
Aerospatiale
SA-315B Lama. Hovered at 17000 ft. It was for the Indian Airforce.
http://www.evergreenaviation.com/EHI...eets/lama.html

It involved installing the Rotor and Mechanicals of the Allouette III
into the body of the Allouette II.

The Russian Helocopters (eg Mi 24 Hind) becuase of their 5 blade
rotors have better high altitude performance than their 4 bladed US
equivalents.

Some Russian sounding guy posted stuff from a Russian AF General with
Grudging but usefull Advice on this just before the Afghanistan
invasion.

FYI:

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mi-24_hind.pl

Check out the max altitude numbers.

Allen

"Simon Robbins" writes:


Rather than lack of oxygen, I imagine it would be that the lower air
pressure simply means the rotor is unable to achieve lift without an
unacceptable increase in rotor speed, which would likely overstress the
engines and gearbox.

I've wondered what keeps you from building a high-altitude version.

I envison big fat blades and an engine design for thin air. Or is there
some other issue I'm not seeing?
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