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#21
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"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote:
:I know the China Lake folks are usually looking for engineers because they :can't find enough people who want to live there. And if you like 'outdoors' types of activities, the Lake really isn't that bad a place to live at all. If you're a city type and want to go clubbing and such, you'd probably be very unhappy there. -- You have never lived until you have almost died. Life has a special meaning that the protected will never know. |
#22
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#23
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nafod40 wrote in message ...
Atcrossroad wrote: (BlackBeard)... "Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal"... Look, your best bet is NOT to enlist. Get your citizenship first and either jump into the Navy or Air Force as an officer OR go to someplace like Eglin AFB, NAS Pax River, MD, or NAWS China Lake, CA and get a challenging technical job as a civilian engineer (civil servant). The pay will be decent, and the satisfaction is great because you'll be working with cutting edge weapons systems--hands on--an engineer's dream. The best advice so far, but.... With the exception that his story was just vague enough to raise flags. PhD in what? He stated electronics was just a hobby and he doesn't have the degree in it. So is he an ME? AE? Choo-Choo engineer? Sanitation Engineer? 2nd tier schools...Ph.D. in systems engineering...only a vague clue about systems engineering...all my experience is in materials science/metallurgy...degree raises flags. I have a B.S. in metallurgical engineering, not really a high demand/growth field too. There is a significant Ph.D. glut in the labor market. Ph.D. from a good school is not an advantage (in most of the cases) in the real world (outside of narrow research fields). Ph.D. from a second tier is simply a burden on one's neck. Waaa, waaa, waaaa, $%^&-ing waaa. Dude, get over your whining. Life sucks, it's tough out there. Saying having a PhD is somehow a burden and holds you back is a steaming load of horse manure. If it holds you back, it's because you let it. Do you think resumes have the slightest impact in getting a job? HA! They are screening forms, allowing people to throw you into a circular file. No wonder you're underemployed. you spend all your effort making excuses. Join the Navy, so you can be further disappointed with life's slings and arrows, and how the system hasn't recognized and taken advantage of your now overeducated abilities. Buying an education is like buying a box of tools. Yours are sitting on the shelf unused. That's your fault. Go buy a falling apart house and use your engineering skills to restore it and sell it for a profit. Take broken radios and fix them. Fix TVs. Want to work on electronics? Just do it! Do great at it, and people will come knocking on your door, instead of you knocking on theirs. Talent is always rewarded. All you have is potential. Or do you really want a Dilbert job where someone hand feeds you? Go out and buy a copy of "What Color is Your Parachute" by a Mr. Bolles. Your local bookstore will have it. study it, complete it, follow it. Well, my Dear. I do not really see where was I whining. Making excuses to whom? To strangers? What's point of whining by posting messages to google groups and then making excuses? I am not a masochist. I do know that life is a jungle and it sucks most of the time. I did not write "I have a Ph.D. they should hand me a job, pay big bucks and so on". I have just stated how things really are, you may like it or not. Sober look is a first step. And most certainly, I am looking for ways to "employ" my potential. Sorry, reading "what's color of your...." BS will help no one. You'll get what you want that way. |
#24
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Atcrossroad wrote:
Well, my Dear. I do not really see where was I whining. Making excuses to whom? To strangers? What's point of whining by posting messages to google groups and then making excuses? I am not a masochist. I do know that life is a jungle and it sucks most of the time. I did not write "I have a Ph.D. they should hand me a job, pay big bucks and so on". I have just stated how things really are, you may like it or not. I felt you were making excuses to yourself. Second tier school, wrong degree title, wrong field, wrong experience, etc. You did provide a quite extensive list of reasons why your PhD interferes with your job hunting. As a PhD holder in engineering myself I disagreed with all of them, based on my experience looking for jobs and on my experience hiring people who do or don't have them. A lot of year's experience. I know exactly how things are. Sorry, reading "what's color of your...." BS will help no one. Oh it will. Backing off of my aggressive tone, I do highly recommend the book. Next time you visit Barnes & Noble, thumb through it. It's got stuff in there that every grad needs to know. It's what colleges should teach their graduates, but don't. Web page... http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/index.html Another great way to learn some useful life skills is to take a Dale Carnegie class. How to meet people, network, etc. We are all salesmen, selling at a minimum ourselves. Go back and read your post. Would you hire yourself? The word "can't" appears way too often. |
#25
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R. David Steele /OMEGA wrote:
:The Navy seems to under use its enlisted. Officers do things :that an Army NCO would do normally. What planet is THAT on? What would those tasks be? -- You have never lived until you have almost died. Life has a special meaning that the protected will never know. |
#26
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"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
... R. David Steele /OMEGA wrote: :The Navy seems to under use its enlisted. Officers do things :that an Army NCO would do normally. What planet is THAT on? What would those tasks be? Yes, unless things have radically changed in the 12 years that I've been out, I'd have to agree with Fred's sentiments. Having spent many years of my precious life either afloat or on Army bases (since I didn't get to see where I lived in the squadbay very much), I never noticed a real difference between the Navy or the Army in terms of delegation of responsibility. In fact, I'd give the USN an overall edge in that regard, not the other way around. It's easy to draw a conclusion from relatively few observations, particularly if it's of a certain occupational specialty. But extrapolation is dangerous. And seeing officers occasionally do things which seem to be the purview of junior enlisted or senior enlisted is not grounds for assuming that that is how the normal state of affairs is. I've seen junior USN officers on gators pitch in sometimes to help with really long-duration intensive UNREPS/VERTREPS, when they see that the Marines and sailors are getting exhausted. And, although it's stretching the example some, you can have a tent team leader who is a PFC (in Arctic warfare), and he can tell his lieutenant or major what to do with respect to his duties on the tent team...doesn't mean that 95% of the time the major isn't in complete charge. I have a formal course in combat intelligence from the Canadian Forces, not to mention my gunner's, FDC, FOO Tech, and radio communicator courses, and in the USMC, I have my 0811 and 0861 MOS courses, plus NGFS and amphibious warfare schools. In theory (not that I could do it now, but I'm talking of back when) I could have done what an officer was supposed to do, and frequently did just that. Vice versa, officers should generally know how to do what their people are supposed to do, and will occasionally be observed doing just that. I like knowing that it's not just the junior guys at the battery CP that know how to operate the ballistics computer, and I like knowing that the 2nd Lt FO who I am backing up actually knows how to operate a laser designator and call in NGF SEAD (because, after all, I might get killed before he does), and given the limited number of officers, I am sure *they* like knowing that I am fully conversant with Regt FSCC/SACC/DASC operations, because that gives them a few extra hours of sleep. If you happen to observe me doing something that an officer normally does a few times, and don't see the officer doing something that I normally do, you may draw the conclusion that enlisted are empowered. If OTOH it's the opposite, you'll start thinking that the service is like the fUSSR. As I say, I agree with Fred. I never got that impression about that difference between the Army and the Navy. AHS |
#27
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R. David Steele /OMEGA wrote:
:But even at an infantry platoon level, the NCOs take on decision :making that it seems in the Navy is done by the division officer. :The Chiefs may supervise but are just not the leaders that Army :NCOs are. You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#28
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#29
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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:40:35 -0800, Mark R.
proclaimed: Part of the problem is the Navy's culture of leadership, or lack thereof. As I understand it, other services begin training people in leadership at the E-3 level. In the Navy, leadership training barely starts at the E-4 level. Until a Sailor makes E-5, they get very little formal leadership training. Sailors are not taught to command or make decisions. Understand that I am from way back in the 50's and what you say was true in those days. I was an E-5 for two years and made E-6 with just two months to go before I ever received anything that resembled "leadership training" and by then it was too late. I was on the way out. The only difference E-5 and E-6 made in those days was pay and sleeping accommodations. |
#30
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It depends on what part of the Navy you are dealing with. In this day
and age, USN Chiefs tend to be micromanaged and second guessed on a daily basis. This is especially true in submarines and on some surface ships where nuclear-trained officers are present. In my mind, the Chief Petty Officer in the USN is no longer a leader. They are expected to be Enforcers and Managers for the wardroom. In my ten years of active service, I have seen more and more JOs who simply refuse to listen to the Chief, and still do well in the eyes of the senior officers. In the Navy I was told about when I was young, and in the one I joined in '93, the CPO was greatly respected up and down the chain of command. Not any more. Part of the problem is the Navy's culture of leadership, or lack thereof. As I understand it, other services begin training people in leadership at the E-3 level. In the Navy, leadership training barely starts at the E-4 level. Until a Sailor makes E-5, they get very little formal leadership training. Sailors are not taught to command or make decisions. They are taught to simply read the tech manual/PMS card/work package and obey it. Learning is by rote memorization of facts and figures. So now we have a whole generation of Sailors - people going up for the Chief's board - who don't even know how to make a simple decision without referring to documentation. Those who know how to make decisions are afraid to for fear of reprisals from above. Don't get me wrong. I'm second generation Navy. My dad is a retired BMC. I have an enormous amount of respect for many of my chiefs. I feel their pain, and despise those who have sold out to the wardroom. Those who try to uphold loyalty and respect up and down the chain of command, tell the truth, and be apolitical are quickly given bad evals and sent into retirement. Those who kiss ass are quickly sent up the ranks. Welcome to the age of the zero-defects mentality, courtesy of the Nuclear Navy. The ghost of Admiral Rickover lives on... On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:48:07 GMT, "Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote: On 9/19/04 8:44 AM, in article , "R. David Steele" /OMEGA wrote: The biggest area is the MI analyst and counter intelligence agent. Both are officer functions in the Navy. The Army uses CI NCOs and Warrants, in NIS is almost all officers. The same for Army CID work. But even at an infantry platoon level, the NCOs take on decision making that it seems in the Navy is done by the division officer. The Chiefs may supervise but are just not the leaders that Army NCOs are. I don't know what your background is, but you obviously haven't seen CPO's in action. Navy Chiefs are some of the most empowered decision makers in all of the armed services. Naval officers RELY on their chiefs... Those that don't are bound to fail. --Woody ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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