In his own words - BWB and the OMABP

My thanks to for the three URL's which cover the
subject on which Bill took me to task.

http://tinyurl.com/2kblp
http://tinyurl.com/3fcuj
http://tinyurl.com/245zz

For those avidly following this thread, it started with BWB asking for
information on when the latest Kitplanes magazine will hit the stands
as it includes an article in which Bill's wife took some pictures. He
remarked in the post: "You might recall that I was the test pilot on
that project about 8 years ago and started posting stuff here on the
flights I was making in it each day."

Well, I kind of did remember Bill posting about his time as a test
pilot, but my recollection was that after a couple of interesting
posts about how much fun it was, he began saying some pretty nasty
things about the OMABP and told us he wasn't flying it anymore.

So I asked him in the Kitplanes thread if this was in fact the same
airplane he wrote about. I said: "Is this the same airplane that you
trashed here in this group because of PSRU failures?"

Innocent enough I thought as I really did think I remembered him bad
mouthing the airplane. So I thought that perhaps something had
changed and maybe it was good news. But to be totally honest, I was
fairly certain that the remark was going be be enough to light Bill's
tail and send him ballistic, whether I liked it or not. Understanding
that, I asked my question anyway.

Bill responded pretty much as per usual these days, i.e. creatively
trashing the person he's unhappy with (me), but also questioning if he
actually did badmouth the PSRU, because today, he thinks it's a fine
piece of machinery, excellently designed and very reliable, and he
apparently did not remember saying bad things about it.

He ended up challenging me to find that past article he wrote because
he didn't think he could have written anything so blasphemous. He
said:

So, Corkman, where did I post that anything other than a belt in the
PSRU ever failed? Go find it and repost it here or you're just
another RAHian dork trying to discredit the fine work of a great team
of guys...the guys of the OMABP.

I accepted the challenge, although I did not personally know how to
find the old posts, I thought someone in the group might. I was
correct.

Bill, I am truly sorry to be the messenger, but you did ask, you did
say it and it's shown below in it's entirety.

********Begin message********

I sent you a message by email too Tom, but here's what's happening.
I'm out of the project and on to another one with an RV-6 with an
O-320 160 hp engine. I should be test flying it within a couple
months. I was associated with the OMABP for fun only. I didn't ever
have any interest in promoting auto conversions or selling this idea
for Jess Meyers. I flew it for the first 100 hours and we had a lot
of problems I never exposed. I just sort of wrote a lot of fun things
about the positive portions of the test flying. It got to the point
where I wanted many things changed and I had asked many questions that
were not answered to my satisfaction. The Old Men had no intentions
of changing anything the test pilot wanted. So, in my own mind I felt
that the risk to fly it was excessive and my feelings were clear to
Jess Meyers. When the airplane changed ownership from Glen Smith to
Jess Meyers, I stepped out of the cockpit for good.

If you want my personal feelings about the design this is it. I think
the engine is great. I think GM builds nearly a million of them each
year and if there were any real problems, they would have fixed them
long ago. The engine is not MY problem. It's the rest of it. I
don't trust the PSRU and I don't trust some of the other external
components. I'm worried about the bearings, I'm worried about the
flywheel, I'm worried about the prop, I'm worried about the coolant
system and I'm worried about the electrical wiring since it burned up
once. There were many things I wanted done before I would fly it
anymore and those things simply were not done. I made a big list and
many of those items were ignored. I felt that my life was worth more
than the thrill I got from test flying it and I made it known that I
had serious questions about the safety of the flight-test program.
When Jess bought the airplane, there were no words spoken, that was
just the end. Jess had no intention of modifying anything I wanted
modified and I had no intention of ever flying it unless these things
were done.

I'm not categorically saying that the airplane is dangerous although I
personally feel that it is. In fact I feel that it is terribly
dangerous. What I am saying is that I have questions that have not
been answered concerning the loads and design limitations of various
things which I felt were critical. This thing needs a mechanical
engineer, a structural engineer, a CAD-CAM guy and an aeronautical
engineer to put it on a dyno, measure it, model it, figure out where
the harmonics are, the reverse torsional vibrations are (RPM) and so
on. The OMABP is a garage operation. In my opinion, to do it right
you'd need about 20 million dollars to run a few to destruction and
take millions of data points. This and only this can prove the design
to be safe over a long haul.

If I were spending 3 years of my life to build an RV I would buy the
Lycoming from Van for $18K instead of the Vortec from Jess at $11K or
whatever they quote now. The other hardware for that airplane is
going to cost you $25 to $30K plus three years of your life. I
wouldn't scrimp on the engine to save $6 to $8K. No way.

I've watched this newsgroup for over 2 years now and many have come
and gone touting auto conversions. I think Bruce Frank and the boys
have something worth really looking at. But the OMABP project was
just a bunch of fun loving guys having fun tinkering with a toy that
someone else was paying for. People bitch about the Lycosaurs being
old technology. Well, so is the wheel and I use the wheel everyday.
It isn't that the engines are old, it's that the technology is old.
What improvements have there really been in GA in the last 40 years?
NONE. The problem was solved when they built the Bonanza in the late
forties for the average Joe-Shmo to have his own airplane. That
doesn't mean Bonanzas are no good, just because the technology is old.
There's lots of technology that's old which we use everyday. When the
problem is solved, it's solved, the physics doesn't change like the
style of a car each year.

Anyway. I'm a crazy ******* and I like to do some flight test at
times just to tingle my spine, but I opt for a Lycoming in an RV for
many reasons and safety is the foremost. I could go on all day about
what is wrong with Lycomings. But, I could go on all day long about
what I worry about with that Vortec too. At least the Lycoming has a
few million hours on it and the failure modes are pretty well
understood. I don't understand where that Vortec may fail next at
all.

I hope this clears it up a bit for many of you who followed my posts.
In a couple months I'll be back in the cockpit of an RV-6 with an
O-320 160 hp on it doing some more testing. I'll write it up and post
it here and I hope you all will enjoy it.

BWB

*************End of Quote*************

After categorizing all the things you thought were at fault in the
airplane, I'm not surprised that you decided to not pilot it anymore.
Heck, it made sense to me back in 1997 when you wrote it. Can you see
why, remembering what you'd said, I might be confused by your
Kitplanes post?

But it looks like you are now solidly behind the OMABP. I guess they
must be relieved. I think I am.

Corky Scott

wrote snip

Well, I kind of did remember Bill posting about his time as a test
pilot, but my recollection was that after a couple of interesting
posts about how much fun it was, he began saying some pretty nasty
things about the OMABP and told us he wasn't flying it anymore.

So I asked him in the Kitplanes thread if this was in fact the same
airplane he wrote about. I said: "Is this the same airplane that you
trashed here in this group because of PSRU failures?"
snip

Trashed? I just read Bill's post you provided. It resonated with
honesty and reasonableness. (which is suprising for BWB! ;-) Just
kidding Bill.) Where does he say the reduction unit kept failing
other than the one bad belt? Telling the public truthfull details
about a project after you're gone and you have time to reflect on it
is not being nasty. It's being a hero to some potential widow; and
letting the rest of us consumers know better what's posssibly in store
for us after we read the slick marketing brochures. Your misguided
loyalty to a hunk of metal is odd Corky. Water-cooled, rubber belted
engine's worry me. My hat's off to BWB, for calling a spade what he
thinks a spade is at the time, even if it hurts people's feelings who
are too close to the project. This might not successfully dissuade me
from buying the engine, but after reading Bill's post I don't think
I'd fly it over water or at night.

After categorizing all the things you thought were at fault in the
airplane, I'm not surprised that you decided to not pilot it anymore.
Heck, it made sense to me back in 1997 when you wrote it. Can you see
why, remembering what you'd said, I might be confused by your
Kitplanes post?

But it looks like you are now solidly behind the OMABP. I guess they
must be relieved. I think I am.

Corky Scott

This kind of built-in safety conflict vs. profitability with those who
make safety decisions while standing on the ground and counting their
money is a very familiar saga for professional pilots (paid or not.)
What seems significant Corky is the passage of seven years without
high failure or fatalities. Bill's attitudes as a test pilot then,
were quite understandable and prudent considering a low budget test
program like that. Now that time's been built up on the engine and
more is known about the choices they made, I'm sure Bill is proud of
having been part of it. As opposed to certain helicopter programs
where the test pilots signed off on practically anything that
management shoved down their throats. The test pilot's attitudes in
those cases resulted in a lot of missing man formations. The above
are my opinions only.

pacplyer

In article ,
says...

After categorizing all the things you thought were at fault in the
airplane, I'm not surprised that you decided to not pilot it anymore.
Heck, it made sense to me back in 1997 when you wrote it. Can you see
why, remembering what you'd said, I might be confused by your
Kitplanes post?

But it looks like you are now solidly behind the OMABP. I guess they
must be relieved. I think I am.

Corky Scott

Well Corky there in lies the beauty of the internet it has no memory lapse
or forgetfullness. Proof positive that one must watch what they say 'round these
parts "lest the past come up and smite thee". I'd have to say you proved
your point. That's why zoom doesn't hang out here, people have long memories.

I guess this goes to show that when it comes to memories we're all human and the
net is not :-)

See ya

Chuck S

In article ,
says...

After categorizing all the things you thought were at fault in the
airplane, I'm not surprised that you decided to not pilot it anymore.
Heck, it made sense to me back in 1997 when you wrote it. Can you see
why, remembering what you'd said, I might be confused by your
Kitplanes post?

But it looks like you are now solidly behind the OMABP. I guess they
must be relieved. I think I am.

Corky Scott

Well Corky there in lies the beauty of the internet it has no memory lapse
or forgetfullness. Proof positive that one must watch what they say 'round these
parts "lest the past come up and smite thee". I'd have to say you proved
your point. That's why zoom doesn't hang out here, people have long memories.

I guess this goes to show that when it comes to memories we're all human and the
net is not :-)

See ya

Chuck S

wrote in message . ..
My thanks to for the three URL's which cover the
subject on which Bill took me to task.

http://tinyurl.com/2kblp
http://tinyurl.com/3fcuj
http://tinyurl.com/245zz

[snip]

Clearly Bigballs Bill never heard of the Ken Layne maxim, "This is the
internet, we can fact-check your ass!"

In article , pacplyer says...

wrote snip
Trashed? I just read Bill's post you provided. It resonated with
honesty and reasonableness. (which is suprising for BWB! ;-) Just
kidding Bill.)

Your right it takes a gutsy guy to test fly "anything". I don't think Corky was
questioning what BWB said at the time because what BWB said sounded very
legitimate. And from the sound of BWB remarks now ,what was wrong evidently was
fixed. Sounds like it's a good unit now and that's what R and D is all about. No
dog in this race but just my .02 cents worth .

See ya

Chuck (I broke lots of reduction drives )S

"ChuckSlusarczyk" wrote I guess this
goes to show that when it comes to memories we're all human and the
net is not :-)

See ya

Chuck S

And sometimes it stutters, too! And sometimes it stutters, too!

:-)
--
Jim in NC



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Bigballs Bill? He used to be Bill "The Grump" Phillips. To me he is
just Bigmouth Bill. A friggin A-hole and a half. He has no
memmories. He doesn't know or remembers who is on his side. He will
turn on you in a pinch. It is all about BWB and no one else. When
you question him, he will threaten to hunt you down and bite your head
off. He thinks he is an ex-Navy Seal or Green Baret, I can't remember
which. Half of his stories are wishful thinking anyway. He used to
post pictures of himself flying an R22 and a MD500, landing at various
places. He insinuated that he owned them. I used to be really
impressed. I went to Vegas and rented a R22 out of Silver State
Helicopters and reallized it was the same R22 that he flew and landed
on the bank of Lake Meade. I reallized that then that he didn't own
that helo nor the MD500, but I didn't question him. Then there was
the time when he told stories about the Raven (CIA FAC pilots) flying
out of Vietnam and not being able to fly into Cambodia or Laos.
Couldn't fly into Laos? I happened to know for a fact that the Ravens
were based out of Wat Tai Airport in Vientiane Laos. I also pointed
out the fact that more tonnage of US bombs were dropped on Laos than
both WWI and WWII combined. There's a lot of things going on in his
head, he can't get it all straight, most of it is bits and pieces of
what he's read or watched in a movie. Sometimes he thinks he has
lived them, a lot of it is wishful thinking. I used to like him for
who he was. Now I don't like him for who he is. Naw, I think I still
like him. I think its his old age. He's not taking it well, aging
that is. He forgets a lot now. He can't take a joke like he used to
be able to. Us younger ones have to make allowances for our
elderlies. Sometimes older folks get grouchy.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

(Marcus) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
My thanks to for the three URL's which cover the
subject on which Bill took me to task.

http://tinyurl.com/2kblp
http://tinyurl.com/3fcuj
http://tinyurl.com/245zz

[snip]

Clearly Bigballs Bill never heard of the Ken Layne maxim, "This is the
internet, we can fact-check your ass!"

On 2 Jul 2004 17:47:44 -0700, (pacplyer) wrote:

Trashed? I just read Bill's post you provided. It resonated with
honesty and reasonableness.

I never claimed it didn't. I was just surprised to hear Bill praising
the airplane recently when I remembered him describing all the
problems he said it had when he'd been the test pilot.

Where does he say the reduction unit kept failing
other than the one bad belt?

Well actually he has aluded to several bad belts that failed but that
really isn't the point. He challenged me in the usual foul mouthed
BWB way to prove that he had at any time said anything negative about
Meyers airplane and/or the OMABP. Luckily for me, a generous
anonymous lurker found the information and made it available.

I wasn't trying to discredit the guys who built the airplane, it's
just not my style and I'm pretty sure everyone here in this group
knows that. What Bill originally stated back in 1997 has apparently
become "Inopperative". Because today he seems to think it's a fine
machine.

That's good because it's better to have Bill's support than to have
him against you. For all I know, the OMABP never even knew of Bill's
comments, not everyone knows about this group after all, so perhaps no
harm was done. But Bill did ask me to find the comment and repost it
for all to see. With the help of my anonymous benefactor, I've done
as he requested.

Corky Scott

That's good because it's better to have Bill's support than to have
him against you. For all I know, the OMABP never even knew of Bill's
comments, not everyone knows about this group after all, so perhaps no
harm was done. But Bill did ask me to find the comment and repost it
for all to see. With the help of my anonymous benefactor, I've done
as he requested.

Corky Scott


Well said..................
Don Lewis n FTW