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IFR use of handheld GPS



 
 
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  #101  
Old May 7th 06, 02:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


wrote in message
oups.com...

Uh, you are referencing procedures for issuing a direct clearance to a
navaid, what I quoted was for the ever popular direct-to-an-airport
clearance, if I am understanding things right. It shows up again as
Note 1 in paragraph 4-1-2.


I'm referencing the requirements for specifying a route other than an
established airway or route and the exceptions to them.


  #102  
Old May 7th 06, 02:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:G0h7g.175499$bm6.83888@fed1read04...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:iZx6g.175204$bm6.170325@fed1read04...


A legal interp has the full force and effect of regulation.


It does not.


It does so.



Prove it.


Apparently you have never read any FAA letters of legal interpretation.

I suggest you schedule a meeting about it with your friendly local FSDO.
Obviously, your aviation education is lacking.
  #103  
Old May 7th 06, 02:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:XSg7g.175495$bm6.14199@fed1read04...

And, we hope it is applied.


Application is not optional.


  #104  
Old May 7th 06, 02:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:9Bm7g.175501$bm6.60501@fed1read04...

You're so full of **** and deception, Steve. Here is my original post:

The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure
that MIAs will not be violated.


You're the one that introduced "AGL altitudes."

Do you have clue about the term "intellectual honesty?"


I sure do. Do you have a clue about the term "service volume"? I suggest
you review AIM paragraph 1-1-8 and figures 1-1-1 through 1-1-5 and then tell
me if the various altitudes given for the service volumes are AGL or MSL.

Failure to respond will be perceived as a lack of intellectual honesty.


  #105  
Old May 7th 06, 02:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:5Gm7g.175502$bm6.155268@fed1read04...

That is a giant load of crap.


How so? Is it your position that everything is illegal until a law is
enacted making some activity legal?


  #106  
Old May 7th 06, 02:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news_g7g.175497$bm6.167703@fed1read04...

I cited Part 95. It is a rule.



Part 95 has many rules in it. Cite the specific rule.


The rule:

"Subpart C - Enroute IFR Altitudes Over Particular Routes and Intersections

Editorial Note: The prescribed IFR altitudes for flights over
particular routes and intersections in this subpart were formerly
carried as sections 610.11 through 610.6887 of this title and were
transferred to Part 95 as §§ 95.41 through 95.6887, respectively, but
are not carried in the Code of Federal Regulations. For Federal Register
citations affecting these routes, see the List of CFR Sections Affected
in the Finding Aids section of this volume.
§ 95.31 General.
This subpart prescribes IFR altitudes for flights along particular
routes or route segments and over additional intersections not listed as
a part of a route or route segment."

[Doc. No. 1580, Amdt. 1-1, 28 FR 6719, June 29, 1963]"

And, from the AIM:

"a) Except in Alaska and coastal North Carolina, the VOR airways are
predicated solely on VOR or VORTAC navigation aids; are depicted in blue
on aeronautical charts; and are identified by a “V” (Victor) followed by
the airway number (e.g., V12)."

Like Part 97, Part 95 incorporates by rule-making reference individual
procedures, in this case Victor airways. The docket amending Part 95
for an individual airway is contained on Form 8260-16, and has the full
force and effect of regulation:

From 8260.19C, Flight Procedures and Airspace:

880. PREPARATION OF FAA FORM 8260-16. This form serves as a transmittal
sheet of en route procedural data to be published under 14 CFR Part 95.
It records current en route information. All airway/route
changes/cancellations must be documented on Form 8260-16 to ensure
publication. Document only one airway per Form 8260-16. If airways
overlap, document each on a separate form.
a. AIRWAY NO. OR ROUTE. Enter the airway number, "Part 95 Direct," or
"Off-Airway Non-95" as appropriate. Use a separate form for each type of
route.
Examples:
For RNAV routes - Q502
For Jet routes - J345
For Victor Airways - V123
b. FROM/TO. Each segment (fix to fix) must be listed, unless succeeding
segments have no significant changes. Segments must be separated at
facilities, flagged fixes, and changes of MEA, MOCA, or MAA. All airways
and routes terminate at the U.S. control area boundary (route alignment
may be explained in REMARKS).
(1) Route segments are normally listed from West to East for even
numbered airways, or South to North for odd numbered airways. When
amending published routes, follow the order of listing in the semiannual
consolidation of 14 CFR Part 95 routes.
(2) Fixes are identified by name, state, and type.
c. ROUTINE OR DOCKET NO. Enter the docket number when the request is
associated with an airspace action. If processing is to be routine,
leave blank.
d. CONTROLLING TERRAIN / OBSTRUCTION AND COORDINATES. When controlled
air space is a factor in MEA determination, make two entries: the
highest terrain and the highest tree or man-made obstacle (if above the
highest terrain). Use the " @ " to identify which obstacle controls the
MEA, even though MRA may require a higher altitude. Show coordinates to
the minute (seconds optional). Annotate a controlling obstacle that is
in the secondary area, and show the required obstacle clearance. No
entry is required for high altitude (Jet or RNAV) routes if terrain is
not a factor. Enter reduction of mountainous obstacle clearance.
e. MRA/MOCA. Enter both figures. To reduce chart clutter, MOCAs less
than 500 feet below MEAs should not be published unless they allow use
of a cardinal altitude within 25 SM of a facility. If a MOCA is not to
be published, line it out (the figure will still be legible for office
record purposes).
f. MAA/MEA. Enter both figures. When dual MEAs are used, show the
directions of flight. When an MEA change occurs at a DME-only fix, dual
MEAs are required since non-DME aircraft cannot receive the fix. When
minor MEA differences exist in adjacent segments, coordinate with ATC to
establish a common altitude.
g. GNSS MEA. Do not establish a GNSS MEA unless it is at least 500'
lower than the conventional MEA. The GNSS MEA must be a cardinal
altitude at or above the MOCA and provide communication capability as
required in TERPS.
NOTE:
These MEAs will be depicted on En route charts with a "G" suffix.
Example: 3500G
h. CHANGEOVER POINT. Enter the changeover point in the segment where it
lies. If midpoint, leave blank. If NOT midpoint, enter the mileage from
and the identifier of the nearest facility. If a gap exists, the
changeover point may be at the middle of the gap; however, leave blank.
If a dogleg, enter "DL." If the dogleg point is a fix, enter the fix
name. Establish a named fix on all dogleg airways that meet en route VHF
intersection criteria. Establish a named DME fix or CNF on all dogleg
airways that do not meet VHF intersection criteria.
i. FIX MRA/MCA. Entries here are referred to the appropriate fix by an
attention symbol (*). The same information is required on the Form
8260-2 for the fix. Show the direction of flight for MCAs.
j. REMARKS. Use this section for all pertinent supporting data. Typical
entries include:
Airspace floor
Terrain clearance applied
Dogleg radials for Part 95 Direct and Off-Airway
Non-95 Routes
Reason for MEA adjustment
Reason for MAA reduction
MEA gap
Cancel segment (reason)
(1) To assist charting agencies, when segments are amended or canceled,
describe the changes in this section or elsewhere on the form as
appropriate.
k. FLIGHT INSPECTION DATES. Enter the date of the original flight
inspection, if available, or indicate "On File." Use "Pending" for
new/relocated facility dockets. If flight inspection records are not
available, leave blank. Use additional lines to log subsequent flight
inspections, periodic reviews, and amendments. When the form's available
spaces are filled, whiteout the entries on manually completed forms, and
start over. Regenerate electronic forms as necessary when available
spaces are filled, deleting previously entered dates. Carry forward any
manually entered dates.
l. DISTRIBUTION. The approved Form 8260-16 must be prepared by AVN-100
and distributed as defined in Table 8-1.
m. Examples: Figure 8-3 contains a consolidated group of examples that
can be used when completing Form 8260-16.
  #107  
Old May 7th 06, 02:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:aMm7g.175503$bm6.161637@fed1read04...

Apparently you have never read any FAA letters of legal interpretation.


I've read a few. Some of them were even logical and correct.



I suggest you schedule a meeting about it with your friendly local FSDO.
Obviously, your aviation education is lacking.


I've found FSDOs to be a poor source of information.


  #108  
Old May 7th 06, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:9Bm7g.175501$bm6.60501@fed1read04...

You're so full of **** and deception, Steve. Here is my original post:


The "rule" is that direct routes initiated by ATC are limited to the
service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the controller can assure
that MIAs will not be violated.


You're the one that introduced "AGL altitudes."

Do you have clue about the term "intellectual honesty?"



I sure do. Do you have a clue about the term "service volume"? I suggest
you review AIM paragraph 1-1-8 and figures 1-1-1 through 1-1-5 and then tell
me if the various altitudes given for the service volumes are AGL or MSL.

Failure to respond will be perceived as a lack of intellectual honesty.


Irrelevant. Table 4-1-1 in 7110.65 is predicated on MSL altitudes, and
that is what ATC uses.

Route procedure design (read AVN, not ATO) indeed uses service volumne
predicated on the elevation of a VOR or NDB where necessary.
Controllers do not. The context of the thread was ATC procedures for
direct routing.
  #109  
Old May 7th 06, 03:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:5Gm7g.175502$bm6.155268@fed1read04...

That is a giant load of crap.



How so? Is it your position that everything is illegal until a law is
enacted making some activity legal?


No, it is not. You're right about aviation issues that are not
addressed by a body of TSOs, ACs, and ARINC documents. That absense is
the not the case with IFR equipment and operations.

Ever heard of Class I and II navigation, for instance?
  #110  
Old May 7th 06, 03:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:Y1n7g.175505$bm6.111217@fed1read04...

Irrelevant. Table 4-1-1 in 7110.65 is predicated on MSL altitudes, and
that is what ATC uses.


Yes, but you said ATC used service volumes, which are predicated on AGL
altitudes. Do you understand the difference between AGL and MSL? Do you
have any aviation experience at all?



Route procedure design (read AVN, not ATO) indeed uses service volumne
predicated on the elevation of a VOR or NDB where necessary. Controllers
do not. The context of the thread was ATC procedures for direct routing.


Yes, that's why your statement was wrong. I'm glad you managed to learn
something in this exchange.


 




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