Sims

John Mazor writes:

As long as you don't pretend that the mere act of puttering through the air in your MSFS
makes you any kind of expert on actual flying, that's fine. Unfortunately, we have a
poster here who doesn't understand the difference.

Who here has claimed that flying a sim makes one an _expert_ in real flight?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

1) In real flight, a large fraction of my attention during cruise is
directed towards scanning for other traffic. The possibility of a
mid- air is a big motivator for paying attention outside the plane
that, for me, is completely missing when I fly the sim.

Mmm ... yes. Traffic is somewhat lacking in the sim. MSFS will
generate traffic, but it's not very realistic. VATSIM provides much
more realistic traffic, but it's so light that one can get away with
never scanning for it. On a few occasions (a very few), I've had TCAS
conflicts and close visual contact with other aircraft in the latter
case, though. Occasionally there are events where so many aircraft
fly at the same time that the network has the same traffic as real
life, and then it can be very interesting.

Of course, in real life, having lots of traffic around isn't fun, but
in simulation, often the things that would be scary or dangerous in
real life are fun or challenging in simulation (such as severe
weather, heavy traffic, etc.).

2) In real flight, there is always the possibility of screwing up and
flying where I'm not supposed to (e.g., restricted areas, TFRs, wrong
altitude, etc.) with potentially serious consequences. This is
another big motivator to occupy the mind with constant double and
triple checking of my position.

This can happen in online simulation, although there are no real
consequences, so it is less stressful, depending on how seriously you
take your simulation. Nobody gets flying privileges revoked for
entering prohibited areas, of course.

3) The real engine always has the potential to fail in flight, so I'm
always listening to it, checking it's gauges, being attentive to the
slightest change.

I consider that a significant argument against real flying. Piston
engines are notoriously unreliable in real life, and I don't see how
constantly watching over them could be enjoyable by any stretch of the
imagination.

4) Most of all, I very much enjoy the pleasure of being in the
airplane and feeling it respond to my control inputs, even when
simply flying straight and level.

Ah, well, that you cannot get from a desktop simulator. Aerobatic and
fighter pilots are also at a disadvantage with sims for this reason,
although I've heard that sim programs dedicated to simulation of such
aircraft (e.g., Lock On) can be enjoyable for those who like this sort
of thing.

I don't pay much attention to sensations; I like procedures and
instruments and navigation. To me, flying along in zero visibility
for an hour and seeing the runway only seconds before I land brings a
considerable sense of achievement.



Too bad you'll never do it, fjukkwit.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

John Mazor writes:

As long as you don't pretend that the mere act of puttering through
the air in your MSFS makes you any kind of expert on actual flying,
that's fine. Unfortunately, we have a poster here who doesn't
understand the difference.

Who here has claimed that flying a sim makes one an _expert_ in real
flight?


You have, you ****king lying piece of ****.


Bertie

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:03:00 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

I don't pay much attention to sensations;

Neither do instrument pilots.

To me, flying along in zero visibility for an hour and seeing
the runway only seconds before I land brings a considerable sense of
achievement.

You don't have zero vis. You can hit "P", and get up and walk away.

Does the desk fall apart if you overstress it?

You aren't flying.

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:03:00 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

I don't pay much attention to sensations;

Neither do instrument pilots.

I disagree. there are a thousand sensations going on you have to pay
attention to.

i know what you mean, that your inner ear is suspect, but you still use it,
you just have to interpret the signal to some extent and of course, it's
always suspect, but it's still of some use.
But there are a lot of other sensations going on, the vibe of the airplane,
the sounds it's making, the changing light outside, smells, even touch (if
we think there is an engine vibe first thing we do is reach for the
throttles to se if they are buzzing, used to be the start levers before
they made them electric)
Quite a few of these subtle inputs aren't even catalogued or quantified.
sometimes something just doesnt feel right and starts you looking around
for the problem.
I'm sure you know what I mean, even if you haven;t ever realy considered it
this way before.

Anthony can't even begin to appreciate this on any level...

Bertie

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:34:51 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

i know what you mean, that your inner ear is suspect, but you still use it,
you just have to interpret the signal to some extent and of course, it's
always suspect, but it's still of some use.
But there are a lot of other sensations going on, the vibe of the airplane,
the sounds it's making, the changing light outside, smells, even touch (if
we think there is an engine vibe first thing we do is reach for the
throttles to se if they are buzzing, used to be the start levers before
they made them electric)
Quite a few of these subtle inputs aren't even catalogued or quantified.
sometimes something just doesnt feel right and starts you looking around
for the problem.
I'm sure you know what I mean, even if you haven;t ever realy considered it
this way before.

As much as we're taught to ignore the seat of our pants...

With it pointed out, you're absolutely right. Another touch aspect is
the yoke feedback and occasional flutters and vibrations.

I'm usually responsible for the smells... G

B A R R Y wrote in
news
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:34:51 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

i know what you mean, that your inner ear is suspect, but you still
use it, you just have to interpret the signal to some extent and of
course, it's always suspect, but it's still of some use.
But there are a lot of other sensations going on, the vibe of the
airplane, the sounds it's making, the changing light outside, smells,
even touch (if we think there is an engine vibe first thing we do is
reach for the throttles to se if they are buzzing, used to be the
start levers before they made them electric)
Quite a few of these subtle inputs aren't even catalogued or
quantified. sometimes something just doesnt feel right and starts you
looking around for the problem.
I'm sure you know what I mean, even if you haven;t ever realy
considered it this way before.

As much as we're taught to ignore the seat of our pants...

Yeah, I knew that's what you meant..


With it pointed out, you're absolutely right. Another touch aspect is
the yoke feedback and occasional flutters and vibrations.

Exactly..

I'm usually responsible for the smells... G


Well, in my contraption it usually means we're being inundated with
organophosphates from the ****ing engine oil... Yech.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Viperdoc writes:

What about when he asked about the location of the ejection seat
activator on the Beech Baron?

There was a military version of the aircraft. I'm still trying to
find out if it was ever equipped with ejection seats. If not, I
presume the ejection seat was a joke of the model developers. You
don't seem to know the answer, but perhaps someone else does.

I do, you;'re an idiot and you're wrong.

You're always wrong.

Well, at least he consistent - which makes him living proof that "A foolish consistency is
the hobgoblin of little minds."

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:53:25 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Ron writes:

At the risk of jumping into the middle of a flame war, I'd like to
offer a few opinions. I fly real airplanes and play with simulators
now and then. Trust me, sims are not close to the real thing. 100%
of "flying" takes place after you leave the ground. All the
sensations of flight are what you feel, hear and see while moving your
airplane around in the sky. It isn't all going from A to B and
watching the scenery unfold on a monitor screen 20 inches in front of
your face. Even full motion multi-million dollar sims are not the
same as "flying". When you fly, if you love to fly, the expense is
secondary and only enters your mind at times when you are not flying
or not thinking about flying.

So do you fly a 747 or a F-18?

It doesn't matter. Flying is aviating in the air no matter what your
aircraft is.


I'll give you the point that simulators can be fun, but they pale in
comparison to flying.

That is purely a matter of opinion.


Tha's why I said in the beginning of my post "I'd like to offer a few
opinions."

Ron Kelley

"John Mazor" wrote in
news:QdI8j.82$Uq4.44@trnddc06:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Viperdoc writes:

What about when he asked about the location of the ejection seat
activator on the Beech Baron?

There was a military version of the aircraft. I'm still trying to
find out if it was ever equipped with ejection seats. If not, I
presume the ejection seat was a joke of the model developers. You
don't seem to know the answer, but perhaps someone else does.

I do, you;'re an idiot and you're wrong.

You're always wrong.

Well, at least he consistent - which makes him living proof that "A
foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."


His must be microscopic.

Bertie