A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old January 15th 19, 04:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

Craig sorry you don’t understand the FAA form 337 either.
Perhaps I should do a primer on here?

Charlie
  #32  
Old January 15th 19, 05:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

As an FYI that memorandum is what I used to put the Stratus Transponder in 17Z last year.
  #33  
Old January 15th 19, 05:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

Here’s some good reading-
https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...-g-8082-19.pdf
and
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...117.b&rgn=div9
  #34  
Old January 15th 19, 07:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate


Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou


Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Scott, you, are in a word, wrong. This is from Trig's website (https://www.trig-avionics.com/suppor.../ads-b-faqs/):

In a certified aircraft you will require a certified TSO C145 position source that meets the requirements of AC20-165 Appendix 2 – such as the Trig TN70.

Trig has an FAA STC program that covers other GPS units. This includes Garmin 400 and 500 series WAAS GPS navigators which can be used with a Trig TT22 or TT31 transponder.

Light Sport, Experimental Aircraft and Gliders can use the TN72 as an approved position source in FAA 2020 rule airspace. This product is certified and meets TSO C199 but is not approved for certified aircraft in the U.S. flying in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace.
  #35  
Old January 15th 19, 07:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 8:45:35 PM UTC-8, Charles Longley wrote:
Here’s some good reading-
https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...-g-8082-19.pdf
and
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...117.b&rgn=div9


Not sure what you point really is. An A&P wishing to do an ADS-B Out install in a type certified glider has to just follow AFS-360. They just have to do the minimum of what is described there. As long as the installation is a minor alteration. And In almost all cases in gliders it hopefully is.

An A&P can do whatever else they believe they need to do to comply with regulations if they determine an install is a major alteration and needs further approval. But that can quickly create problems, starting with there is no STC for any install of any transponder in any glider. And the TN70 STC is also not a STC with any gliders on the AML... it's used purely for establishing the pairing of the TT22 and TN70 is approved as required by AFS-360. There are other options than a STC for approval but that should not .be required.

A recent thing I got involved with at the request of Pereguine, the STC holder for the TN70 STC, was to help an FAA DAR out with understand the paperwork/regulations for installation of a TT22+TN70, in a vintage power aircraft with no engine driven system, that FAA DAR was perfectly OK with everything I have basically represented on r.a.s., as was his FSDO. So I am pretty comfortable I have a good enough handle on this and how easy a TN70 install and it's paperwork should be in a typical type certified glider.

If you don't like the associated 337 in this process being called an "advisory 337", then hey you can call it whatever you want. But that's the language I've been using to try to make it clear the STC involved here is not being used as the basis for an installation approval.... and to try to avoid things like folks approaching a FSDO and assuming these are necessarily major alterations and the STC is going to be the the basis for that major alteration.... the poor FSDO folks can then start assuming it is because the folks talking to them are saying it is. Doing this has caused pain for some type certified glider owners trying to get 2020 Compliant ADS-B out installs happening, and I am tying to help other avoid those mistakes.

And the offer is there for anybody looking to do an TN70 install I can help talk them and/or their A&P thought this if they need to, but AFS-360 is hopefully clear enough. I was happy recently when one of the busiest glider A&P IA's I had helped understanding this stuff helped walk another glider repair shop though the process. Happy that the word is getting out here, and more ADS-B Out install are happening, which is great for safety for folks in busy airspace.



  #36  
Old January 15th 19, 03:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

Darryl I agree with you that you can use a pairing that has been approved by a STC, TC or ATC on another aircraft for approval basis on an aircraft that is not on an AML per the MOU. I used the MOU to put a Stratus transponder in a Pawnee that isn’t on the AML. What I don’t agree with is the term “informational 337.”

If you review the two documents I put a link up for you’ll see that there is several avenues for finding approved data. As an IA I can’t approve data. What I can do is determine if data is approved by someone else. (STC, DER, 43.13, MOU, etc) I then sign a 337 to attest to that fact. The 337 then gets sent to the nice folks at FAA registration. Where it gets put in the aircrafts records and pretty much never sees the light of day until the airplane crashes or someone buys it. My ASI is typically never involved unless I have a question. Years ago (before I became an IA) they had to approve every 337 but they got to busy with the airlines. The onus is now on the lowly IA.

I hope this makes my position clear.
  #37  
Old January 15th 19, 05:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainersqualify

Bad choice of words, I guess.* The 337 simply said (paraphrasing, since
it's at the hangar, not home), "Performed the installation in accordance
with STC number xxx, Installation Manual."* Not much more than that.

On 1/14/2019 6:53 PM, Charles Longley wrote:
There’s no such thing as an informational 337. A 337 is a 337. There’s several ways to get approved data. Not sure you guys understand the process.


--
Dan, 5J
  #38  
Old January 15th 19, 08:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 8:22:10 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Bad choice of words, I guess.* The 337 simply said (paraphrasing, since
it's at the hangar, not home), "Performed the installation in accordance
with STC number xxx, Installation Manual."* Not much more than that.

On 1/14/2019 6:53 PM, Charles Longley wrote:
There’s no such thing as an informational 337. A 337 is a 337. There’s several ways to get approved data. Not sure you guys understand the process.


--
Dan, 5J


Yeah no problem. It just hurts my eyes when I see someone call a 337 informational or advisory...
  #39  
Old January 16th 19, 04:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 12:11:55 AM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate

Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou


Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Scott, you, are in a word, wrong. This is from Trig's website (https://www.trig-avionics.com/suppor.../ads-b-faqs/):

In a certified aircraft you will require a certified TSO C145 position source that meets the requirements of AC20-165 Appendix 2 – such as the Trig TN70.

Trig has an FAA STC program that covers other GPS units. This includes Garmin 400 and 500 series WAAS GPS navigators which can be used with a Trig TT22 or TT31 transponder.

Light Sport, Experimental Aircraft and Gliders can use the TN72 as an approved position source in FAA 2020 rule airspace. This product is certified and meets TSO C199 but is not approved for certified aircraft in the U.S. flying in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace.


Uh Yeah, Darryl pretty much covered that.
Thanks.
  #40  
Old January 16th 19, 10:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 7:07:33 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 12:11:55 AM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate

Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou

Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Scott, you, are in a word, wrong. This is from Trig's website (https://www.trig-avionics.com/suppor.../ads-b-faqs/):

In a certified aircraft you will require a certified TSO C145 position source that meets the requirements of AC20-165 Appendix 2 – such as the Trig TN70.

Trig has an FAA STC program that covers other GPS units. This includes Garmin 400 and 500 series WAAS GPS navigators which can be used with a Trig TT22 or TT31 transponder.

Light Sport, Experimental Aircraft and Gliders can use the TN72 as an approved position source in FAA 2020 rule airspace. This product is certified and meets TSO C199 but is not approved for certified aircraft in the U.S.. flying in 2020 rule ADS-B airspace.


Uh Yeah, Darryl pretty much covered that.
Thanks.

Oooh snap you told me!!
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would it qualify for hazardous duty pay? Byker Aviation Photos 0 September 1st 15 03:42 AM
Sustainers and Self-Launchers- How often and for how long do you runyour motors (after launch)? son_of_flubber Soaring 5 April 21st 14 06:56 PM
FAR 61.58 regarding HpH 304SJ,Jonker JS1-CJT, et al jet sustainers [email protected] Soaring 2 May 23rd 13 04:52 PM
73 old planes that qualify for Light-sport [email protected] Piloting 1 September 14th 10 12:35 AM
Don't Know If It Would Qualify... Jay Beckman Home Built 4 March 30th 04 07:17 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.