High Performance Single Engine Choices

Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami

Give up the 160kt requirement for a few hundred hours and go with a good
Cessna 182 Skylane. You can count on 130kts with it and it meets all your
other requirements. After more experience, then go with something with
higher performance.

GB


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami

In article , O. Sami Saydjari
wrote:

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.

A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.


EDR wrote:

In article , O. Sami Saydjari
wrote:

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.

And a 225 bo would not go 160+ knots.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:19:47 -0800, Jeff wrote:

A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.

The Comanche 260 were bringing a premium and ran considerably more
than the 250s. I don't know if they still do, but they were running
about the same as an early F-33. Maybe a bit more than the Debonairs.

I would think you should be able to find Bonanzas and Debonairs from
the same era as the Comanche in about the same price range. As in
anything else condition and prices may vary widely.

As for the number of passengers, most of the "4 passenger" high
performance singles are three adults and you might be able to cary
full tanks. In 74 they raised the useful load in the F-33s from 1000#
to 1400# so if you take 80 gallons at 6# per which makes 480#, that
leaves 920# that you can load in. Unfortunately the 74s are probably
going to run around $150,000. With earlier models you are looking at
1000#, minus 480# of gas, leaving a total of 520# for people and
baggage. Three FAA standard 170# adults just happen to be 510# so
they can take 10# of luggage between them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


EDR wrote:

In article , O. Sami Saydjari
wrote:

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.

Well, Sami, I've got ya covered on everything except the 160 knots. Our
Cherokee 235 Pathfinder has:

1. Fast: 160 kts

We'll do 140 knots all day long, with fixed gear. (Read: Cheaper annual
inspections.)

2. Price range: $75K-$120K

We bought ours for $74K, and put in a new engine. With the new interior,
new engine, and a raft of other stuff, it's in the $100K range now. (But
it's not for sale... ;-)

3. Four Seater

Yep. Four REAL, 200+ pound, 6 foot tall people.

4. Range: 800nm

Try 1100+ nm. Farther, if you throttle back, and your bladder can stand
it.

5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs

1460 pounds total. 956 pounds useful, with 84 gallons of fuel on board.

6. Retains its value well over time

Late model Cherokee 235s sell themselves.

7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record

Low compression Lycoming O-540, carbureted. Burns car gas. Almost
bulletproof.

8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

Yep.

I'd say if you can bend your mission parameters on the speed required, you
won't find a better aircraft than the post-1972 Cherokee 235 (known
variously as the "Charger", "Pathfinder", and "Dakota", depending on the
year.) That's the year they stretched the fuselage 5 inches, making all
that horsepower usable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

You can get insurance with no HP/complex time, but you'll have to fly
more dual before you can solo.

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped

Where are you located? Have you flown the Comanche or the Arrow?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Ben Jackson wrote:

In article ,
O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


You can get insurance with no HP/complex time, but you'll have to fly
more dual before you can solo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.




I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped


Where are you located? Have you flown the Comanche or the Arrow?


Wisconsin. I have flown a Comanche 260 and a Mooney 201. I like them
both in terms of how they fly. I have not yet had a chance to fly an Arrow.

Did they say they would not insure those for you or did they price them out of
your range or what your wanting to pay for insurance?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrotelo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.