boycott united forever

Matt Barrow wrote:

I remember the media crowing about how good it was going to be for
United
when the union became the primary stockholder (IOW, the OWNER of the
COMPANY).

UAL was going to become the Workers Paradise=AE.

It did, and that's just the problem. Build a company for the benefit of
its employees, and the customers and owners get screwed.

I love how the union is now talking about this "CHAOS" strike where
they just randomly slack off to disrupt operations. Apparently they
forgot about these annoying people called "customers."

United may not die, but at this point it certainly deserves to.

-cwk.

The guarantee comes from the PBGC which is funded by payments from
companies, not taxes.

-Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
The guarantee comes from the PBGC which is funded by payments from
companies, not taxes.

-Jim

What happens if it runs out of money? Government bail out or tough luck?

So was the FSLIC until it became bankrupt.

Mike
MU-2

"Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
The guarantee comes from the PBGC which is funded by payments from
companies, not taxes.

-Jim

On 13 May 2005 14:33:02 -0700, "Jim" wrote:

The guarantee comes from the PBGC which is funded by payments from
companies, not taxes.

Just you wait, Henry Higgins!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message Speaking as one of the millions who have
never had a pension plan -- and
never will -- $45K per year for sitting around the house sounds pretty
danged good.

$45k is the maximum. Very few will get that amount. I work with a flight
attendent who had 19 years, 11 months in at Eastern when they went tango
uniform. Being 1 month shy of 20 years, and being well shy of 60 years of
age, means she will get less than $300/ month at retirement (if the PBGC
isn't dissolved). This is much more prevalent than the $45k/yr figure touted
in the press.

Employees with a pension plan give up other benefits, usually more pay, for
the promise of a retirement pension. When those promises are broken, the
employee ends up with nothing in exchange for many years of concessions.
Most of these people put their trust in Big Corporate Brother and will pay
dearly in their less productive years.

You don't have a pension, but I bet your retirement will be a lot nicer for
not counting on Big Corporate Brother.

D.

The PBGC funds pensions based on premiums paid by companies with
pensions--not taxes. From their website:

"Our financing comes from insurance premiums paid by companies whose
plans we protect, from our investments, and from the assets of pension
plans that we take over, but not from taxes."

Jim wrote:

The PBGC funds pensions based on premiums paid by companies with
pensions--not taxes. From their website:

"Our financing comes from insurance premiums paid by companies whose
plans we protect, from our investments, and from the assets of pension
plans that we take over, but not from taxes."

The problem is that the PBGC doesn't have enough money to pay for all
the pensions it has to support. Also from their web site:

"As of September 30, 2004, the PBGC’s own balance sheet showed a $23.3
billion deficit, with $39 billion in assets to pay $62.3 billion in
guaranteed pension benefits to more than 1 million workers and retirees.
By law, the PBGC is required to keep premiums as low as possible and has
no call on the U.S. Treasury beyond a $100 million line of credit."

This was before almost $7 billion in additional unfunded obligations was
added by the shift of the United Airlines programs over to the board,
not to mention the possibility of Delta and other airlines also coming
under its umbrella in the future. The board estimates that single
employer plans in the country as a whole are underfunded by about %450
billion. Perhaps %100 billion of that problem could be passed on to the
PBGC in future years.

The reality is that the PBGC will have to significantly increase
premiums paid by other healthy companies to make up the difference.
This leads to a couple of problems: One is that the other companies will
find themselves competing with restructured companies that have reduced
their pension obligations, and in essence passed them, through premiums
paid to the PBGC, to their competitors. How long do you expect Delta or
Northwest to last when they not only have to pay their own premiums, but
those of a restructured UAL and US as well? There was a cascading effect
in the steel industry as each company in turn passed obligations on to
the PBGC, and the airline industry is now doing the same.

The second problem is that there is a point where all the companies
under the plan will balk at significantly increased premiums, and will
appeal to Congress for relief. Consider that many companies in the auto
industry is approaching the same state as the airlines and the steel
companies before them. It's only a matter of time before GM dumps its
plan on the PBGC.

My bet is that Congress will have to take action and inject cash into
the plan to keep it solvent.

Here is some testimony given by the director of the PBGC that goes into
further detail:

http://www.pbgc.gov/news/speeches/testimony_100704.htm
http://www.pbgc.gov/news/speeches/testimony_042605.htm

[Warning for people who are deficient in detecting sarcasm: Look out
below!]

Sure the PBGC is underfunded by $450 billion and many companies with
pensions are on the verge of bankruptcy. But don't worry that they
will all fail, because the economy is doing SO much better according to
the administration. Look at all the new high paying jobs that have
been created here and Bangalore! CEO salaries are at record highs so
things are SURELY ok with the economy, US companies and their employees
who will soon be able to trust their future retirement to the ALWAYS
growing stock market rather than a mere promise from the government.

Also, don't forget we now have much better corporate governance and
oversight Just look at the justice brought to criminal mastermind
Martha Stewart. We'll just ignore Ken Lay who could not possibly know
the petty details of Enron operations. I'm sure his compensation was
well earned. And besides, he was such a good friend of the party!

Oil prices going up? No problem. The prez and the Saudi's are
friends. (I saw them holding hands!)

Oh, and please don't argue that a single terrorist attack of one tenth
the scale of 9/11 would be a major setback because it won't happen.
That's right, we are now SO much better protected with the TSA, Patriot
Act, and TFRs not to mention the COMPLETE elimination of the great WMD
threat to the US from Iraq. In addition, the US has clearly taken a
lead in reducing the threat from Korea and Iran. I hardly think about
them at all. Oh yes, Freedom is on the march!

So don't worry about Congress stepping in to bail out the PBGC. The
economy is sound thanks to this administration's oversight. Be
comforted that we are led by the party that believes in less taxation
and less regulation so you know they are going to act in YOUR best
interest. Right?

-Jim

Jim wrote:

[Warning for people who are deficient in detecting sarcasm: Look out
below!]

Sure the PBGC is underfunded by $450 billion and many companies with
pensions are on the verge of bankruptcy. But don't worry that they
will all fail, because the economy is doing SO much better according to
the administration.

.... I feel so relieved, now that you have explained it so clearly.