Debacle: Flight test of Diana-2

If you don't like the glider or the selling team/Agent..
buy something else!
use your time gliding..not moaning
I'm sure some other manufacturer will be happy to relive
of some Euro

At 19:48 13 October 2005, wrote:
I believe it is more reasonable not to allow somebody
to fly it then
face all the possible tragic consequences of an accident.
Therefore
saying 'no' at the last moment was not a matter of
trying to
humiliate Mr. Sharma by any means as he claims - but
protecting both,
the person and the glider. It's also worth mentioning
that our
decision was confirmed by the local gliding instructor
who shared our
doubts. Mr Sharma said to me personally that he had
only 200 hours and
no experience on racing class gliders.

We need some facts...

1) Was this decision based on Mr Sharma's previous
flying experience or
on the results of his checkride ?
2) Is it true that by the time he landed the glider
was already being
disassembled ?

Bartek

If you don't like the glider or the selling team/Agent..
buy something else!
use your time gliding..not moaning
I'm sure some other manufacturer will be happy to relive
of some Euro

At 19:48 13 October 2005, wrote:
I believe it is more reasonable not to allow somebody
to fly it then
face all the possible tragic consequences of an accident.
Therefore
saying 'no' at the last moment was not a matter of
trying to
humiliate Mr. Sharma by any means as he claims - but
protecting both,
the person and the glider. It's also worth mentioning
that our
decision was confirmed by the local gliding instructor
who shared our
doubts. Mr Sharma said to me personally that he had
only 200 hours and
no experience on racing class gliders.

We need some facts...

1) Was this decision based on Mr Sharma's previous
flying experience or
on the results of his checkride ?
2) Is it true that by the time he landed the glider
was already being
disassembled ?

Bartek

"Glider Factfinder" wrote in
message ...
If you don't like the glider or the selling team/Agent..
buy something else!
use your time gliding..not moaning
I'm sure some other manufacturer will be happy to relive
of some Euro

That is not the point. It is not even the fact he did not fly the machine,
the man has been humiliated.
A bit of empathy may be in order if nothing else.
Only now do people have some recourse.
Long live RAS.
Udo

wrote:

The prospect of being judged in public forces the other side to
respond, whereas otherwise they might simply shrug it off. How the
other side conducts themselves provides useful information for members
of the gliding public who may wish to deal with them in the future.

And it works both ways.

The disgruntled customer protests in too much detail and too defensively
-- in a manner that calls into question his maturity as much as his
antagonist's methods.

In short, he does not on first impression seem the sort to whom I would
eagerly lend a very special ship.


Jack

That's also a valid interpretation (although Mr. Meuller's failure to
address key factual points lends credence to Mr. Naresh's point of view
in my opinion). The good news is, regardless of who is correct, we who
are not party to the dispute get a tremendous amount of entertainment
from it. Let the mud keep flying!

Alexander,

Your response does not explain your behavior to a fellow glider pilot and
potential customer. You did not just fail to communicate with him -- you
ignored, insulted and humiliated him.

I would never consider a Diana product based on what I've read here so far.

Ted Wagner
Chandler, AZ, USA
Ventus-2c "2NO"

Jack, just what disgruntled customer's protests have you been reading?

The disgruntled former Diana customer provided far more detail than the
vendor and if I'd had my time and money wasted like that I would have done
the same thing. In even greater detail. And with a lot more finger-wagging.

I'm very thankful for consumers like him who share their experiences. Thank
you, Naresh, and I hope you eventually get some of your money back, though
I'm sure it's not nearly as valuable as the time you lost.

-ted/2NO
Chandler, AZ USA

"Jack" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

The prospect of being judged in public forces the other side to
relspond, whereas otherwise they might simply shrug it off. How the
other side conducts themselves provides useful information for members
of the gliding public who may wish to deal with them in the future.

And it works both ways.

The disgruntled customer protests in too much detail and too
defensively -- in a manner that calls into question his maturity as much
as his antagonist's methods.

In short, he does not on first impression seem the sort to whom I would
eagerly lend a very special ship.


Jack

I believe it is more reasonable not to allow somebody to fly it then
face all the possible tragic consequences of an accident. Therefore
saying "no" at the last moment was not a matter of trying to
humiliate Mr. Sharma by any means as he claims - but protecting both,
the person and the glider. It's also worth mentioning that our
decision was confirmed by the local gliding instructor who shared our
doubts. Mr Sharma said to me personally that he had only 200 hours and
no experience on racing class gliders.

Alexander Mueller
www.dianasegelflugzeuge.com

Alexander:

You did not address Mr. Sharma's assertion that the Diana was being
de-rigged during his checkride.
You had his aeronautical experience before he arrived at the field.
If you were not going to let him fly, you should have told him as soon as it
was determined.

I am a USA Flight Instructor and a ASW27B owner. I have seen people with
inflated ideas of their ability and can usually determine this quickly
during a check ride. With the right training in the ASK21, the transition to
a '27 is easy.

In any event--if Mr Sharma failed his check ride, he should have been
infomed of that, and exactly what he did wrong. That could be lifesaving for
Mr. Sharma.

Either way, it is a pretty shabby way to treat a potential customer.

Hartley Falbaum
USA ASW27B "KF"

All I'm stating is that your technical analysis of the glider itself
cannot be correct due to many factors you've all mentioned. You can
write whatever you like that's the beauty of Internet.

All the responses both, pro/con my point are appreciated. Thank you for
the follow-ups. This is in the hope that glider pilots are not misused
by manufacturers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

I'm copying the email of Mr. Alexander Mueller since it was not cached
by my server, I don't know why maybe someone can explain.

His email has a very twisted version of the day. Including the comments
from the three pilots who flew the glider. The only one who was totally
pleased with the glider was Yvonne Schwarz. Yvonne is between 45-55kgs
and very short. You can look up the photos of the day and see for
yourself. She fit in the glider perfectly due to her size. The only
other person who made comments on the stall spin were the french pilot
who said: "very easy to fly, I tried to stall it straight and level and
in cirlces, and it wouldn't, I didn't try to spin it since I was not
comfortable." I would like to put on my Aerospace Engineer's cap here
and say a few words about control-power but I'd be digressing...

As far as experience goes, Mr. Mueller wrote to me BEFORE I went on the
wild-goose chase of getting the paper-work to fly the Diana that the
hour requirement was 200 with 3 flights in last 4 weeks. I don't know
where this racing-class point is being raised. Janus-c-22m, and DG500
should be in the racing class, they are flapped and all have 40 glide
ratio. Anyway, I have flown these types, Mr. Mueller never bothered to
mention. I'm sure that DG300 pilots would not be too happy with the
remarks of Mr. Mueller.

The last straw is Mr. Mueller saying that their check-ride was not ok.
In addition to their beginning the de-rigging before I even took-off,
according to my friend who was shockingly watching the events unfold,
the check-pilot clearly, as the German-swiss do, announced that,
"according to me you were fine". I left at the field at that time as the
humiliation of their behavior was too much to take.

Mr. Mueller, before making any personal comment on my flying ability,
should realize that I am also a Flight Instructor, and have been judged
a safe and good instructor by three separate 20,000 hour instructor
examiners who apparantly don't speak to each other, and live 1000's of
Kms away from each other. Unlike many other pilots I know: in the 1250
or so flights, I've never nicked a glider and hope to stay that way.

Lastly, I wouldn't have had ANY problem if they did not want me to fly
the diana, just that, if that was the case, they should have told me so
and not wasted my TIME and money. Mr. Beres mentioned the weather, and
that was not so, since the day was beautiful when the flying was started
as one can well see on the photograph at my blog. How may lies to hide
the truth?

They should have said, this glider is going to be sold only to the
world-champions and 10 levels down (world-vice-world-vice-vice-world
etc), there is no room for 215 hour guy like you, call us maybe in a few
years, and I would have been happier. What Mr. Mueller should realize is
that email, skype-chat and my faithful digital-camcorder is good in
recollecting the precise details and faithfully reproducing the FACTS.
If the group would be keen, I'll put up all the emails and skype
sessions that I've had with Mr. Mueller for public consumption.

Another strange thing is happening, there are a bunch of attacks on my
blog that are coming from top level domain .pl.

Best regards,

Naresh



----copied- Alexander-Mueller's-email-to-rec.aviation.soaring--------
----since it was uncached and mentioned personal comments about me---

The first ever presentation of brand new Diana 2 was of considerable
success and a thoroughly positive event, nevertheless there was fog in
the morning and few hours of sunshine only. Until now only the
competition pilots Janusz Centka and Sebastian Kawa and the two other
test pilots of BPB (Bogumil Beres' production company of Diana 2) had
been flying. Now for the first time ever customers had the unique
chance to fly the new Diana 2.

We started in Germany (the country with the strongest glider community)
in the Swabian Jura in Aalen-Elchingen where the rate of glider pilots
per square meter is the highest in the world. Pilots who flew Diana 2
- the dream glider to many - finished the flights with a smile of
satisfaction on the face.

The testing customers were positively thrilled about the way Diana 2 is
flying. Some feedback: the glider is easy to fly and also safe. None of
the pilots (among them also competition pilots and instructors) could
make the glider spin or stall completely. The view out of the cockpit
is unprecedented - so far no other glider can boast of such an
incredible - wide view from the cockpit (both forward and backward).
The Vice-World Champion Yvonne Schwarz could even see the rudder from
the cockpit. She said "It's like sitting in a swimming pool",
"I'm not flying, I'm just in the air". Also the glider shows
the pilot in a fine way where the thermal is standing. (On the first
day there where some week ones).

With such positive feedback from all those who had the chance to fly
Diana 2 it is understandable that those who couldn't feel unhappy
about. Despite being easy to fly and handle we should still remember
that Diana 2 is a high performance sailplane demanding a little bit
more than just basic knowledge of flying.

I believe it is more reasonable not to allow somebody to fly it then
face all the possible tragic consequences of an accident. Therefore
saying "no" at the last moment was not a matter of trying to
humiliate Mr. Sharma by any means as he claims - but protecting both,
the person and the glider. It's also worth mentioning that our
decision was confirmed by the local gliding instructor who shared our
doubts. Mr Sharma said to me personally that he had only 200 hours and
no experience on racing class gliders.

Our decision was not based on personal preferences but on extreme
caution and common sense. Safety is the most important issue in our
sport. There are some examples of crashes during presentations of
gliders. We are sorry that Mr Sharma mistook safety priorities for a
personal attack on his person. However I'm thankful to Mr. Sharma
that he is stirring a discussion about the BPB dedication to safety
matters. We pay a lot of attention not only to excellence in sailplane
production but also to maximum safety of our clients.

For those interested in more information about Diana 2 you can
subscribe to my English and German speaking Newsletter by sending an
email with "subscribe" to or just
call me (+49-178-358 83 08). The pictures and detailed report from the
first three days of test flying of customers will be on my webpage
(English version coming soon) within the next days.

I think that it is very easy to write something negative and by this
damage our gliding sport. Instead we should be thankful to visionary
people like Bogumil Beres who make the gliding sport go forward.

Cheers
Alexander Mueller
www.dianasegelflugzeuge.com