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post vs stick hangar construction



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 29th 03, 12:06 AM
Joa
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Default post vs stick hangar construction

For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
stick (framed walls)?

Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.

Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
end).

Thanks.

Joa
  #3  
Old October 29th 03, 01:38 AM
BD5ER
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....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
stick (framed walls)?


The last few times I built a structure similar (not a real hangar yet) the post
built came out cheaper for materials. Since I built them myself I didn't
factor in the labor. I'm not much of a carpenter but the post went together
faster for me than the stick. It may be the other way around if you hire a
professional.

My current project is a 40 X 16 storage shed using wood poles/posts, and steel
studs in place of the 2Xs. They are cheaper and straight. Should look kind of
odd when I get to skinning it with all those cleco's sticking out the side
waiting for the rivets G

Urethane foam insulation may cost more but it goes in so fast IMHO it's worth
the cost to let someone else do it.
  #4  
Old October 29th 03, 03:38 AM
Blueskies
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Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....

--
Dan D.



..
"Joa" wrote in message om...
For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
stick (framed walls)?

Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.

Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
end).

Thanks.

Joa



  #5  
Old October 29th 03, 05:34 AM
Roger Halstead
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Default

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" wrote:

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....



I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".

I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.

The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
board or styrofoam.

Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
conditioner in the hot summer.

The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.

The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm


Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
  #6  
Old October 29th 03, 03:25 PM
Jerry Wass
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Default

What's a "rat wall" ??

Roger Halstead wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" wrote:

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....


I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".

I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.

The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
board or styrofoam.

Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
conditioner in the hot summer.

The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.

The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


  #7  
Old October 29th 03, 03:43 PM
Charlie Smith
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Default

I built a 25X35 shop about three years ago in Indiana. No building codes
applied so I could do what I wanted. I made it pole (4X6 pressure treated)
and put 6" concrete at the base of the poles to act as footers. I did not
use any other footer. I framed between the poles with 2X4 and have a 4"
concrete floor. Walls are insulated and finished in drywall as is the
ceiling (R25 blanket there). It has one 9 foot garage door, a standard 32"
entry door and four windows plus a standard shingle roof. As I did all the
work myself, I have no estimate of labor but I think I have about $8000 in
all the materials. All materials were purchased new so you may be able to
do better with second-hand doors, windows, etc.

It can be cooled easily with an 18,000 BTU window AC and a 4kW electric wall
furnace is adequate for heating (except for cost) in all but the coldest
parts of winter.

Charlie Smith


"Joa" wrote in message
om...
For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
stick (framed walls)?

Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.

Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
end).

Thanks.

Joa



  #8  
Old October 29th 03, 03:45 PM
Montblack
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Default

You the one leaning on the shovel? :-)

What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation?

Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my
airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are
the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them.

You've measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right?
g

--
Montblack
"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

("Roger Halstead" wrote)
snips
I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".


The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm



  #9  
Old October 29th 03, 08:15 PM
Roger Halstead
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:45:16 -0600, "Montblack"
wrote:

You the one leaning on the shovel? :-)


What? Me get dirty? Not a chance. Besides it's not greasy enough

No, I'm the guy with little hair in a few farther down the page
working on some lay-ups.

What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation?


If you look at the photo where the trench just inside the forms is
visible...they pour the floor and then right on over into that trench.

That forms the "rat wall" which is just an extension of the floor. In
my case it's 16 inches down. The reason for a "rat wall" which is a
lot like a shallow foundation is to ...discourage rats from making a
home under the floor which can be a real problem when you only pour a
slab.

Around here a true foundation would have only been about a foot deeper
and required one more course of cement blocks.

Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my
airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are
the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them.


That is painted "barn metal" and costs about the same as dry walling
the interior. Actually the barn metal is more expensive, but takes
far less labor to install. It's a whole lot easier on your back too.
:-)) Those sheets weight a fraction of a dry wall sheet.


You've measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right?
g


That's going to be an interesting exercise. "THEORETICALLY" if the
landing gear is on dollies, I *should* be able to take it out corner
wise by sticking the tail in one corner next to the door, sliding the
nose out, sliding the whole works forward and then sliding it sideways
to take the tail out.

OTOH, the wing is separate until final assembly and I may do that at
the EAA building at 3BS. I would like to put it together and do the
engine testing before taking it to the airport. That would reduce the
final, final assembly to less than a week. I plan on doing the flight
testing, or at least the initial flight testing with the plane only
primered.

Then again, I have more concerns about being too old to fly it by the
time it's done, compared to getting it out of the shop. sigh

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
  #10  
Old October 31st 03, 12:56 AM
Blueskies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
construction but no where to post them...

Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...

--
Dan D.



..
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" wrote:

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....



I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".

I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.

The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
board or styrofoam.

Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
conditioner in the hot summer.

The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.

The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm


Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)



 




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