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#11
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:55:03 -0500, A Lieberman
wrote: Since the airspace would be all mine for an IFR arrival, The point I was trying to make is that that is not necessarily the case. ATC will separate you from other IFR traffic, but they have NO responsibility to separate you from VFR traffic. I **wouldn't think** JAN Approach would care how I maneuvered to get to 35 I'd agree with that. But that does not make it safe or legal. I doubt that I would find VFR traffic in the pattern when ceilings are 900 feet. Of course, anything is possible! Since VFR traffic can legally be in the pattern in that airspace with weather at 900/5, you only have to be wrong once to have a really bad day. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have legally flown to a similar airport in similar weather, VFR. I have also seen, at my home airport, powered parachutes in the pattern and the vicinity at a few hundred feet AGL. My preference on a circling approach is to always fly a left hand pattern. If there is some safety reason to execute a right hand pattern (or if the airport has right traffic), then I will fly a right hand pattern. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#12
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:28:40 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
My preference on a circling approach is to always fly a left hand pattern. If there is some safety reason to execute a right hand pattern (or if the airport has right traffic), then I will fly a right hand pattern. Hi Ron, I really appreciate your input. Let me ask you this question as I really learn from others.... Seeing how the VOR Alpha approach leads you into the airport, and if you reached midfield at minimums, how would you execute the landing for runway 35 if you don't execute a right hand pattern? There are no noise sensitive areas, nor any unusual considerations around MBO. Allen |
#13
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:05:26 -0500, A Lieberman
wrote: On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:28:40 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld wrote: My preference on a circling approach is to always fly a left hand pattern. If there is some safety reason to execute a right hand pattern (or if the airport has right traffic), then I will fly a right hand pattern. Hi Ron, I really appreciate your input. Let me ask you this question as I really learn from others.... Seeing how the VOR Alpha approach leads you into the airport, and if you reached midfield at minimums, how would you execute the landing for runway 35 if you don't execute a right hand pattern? There are no noise sensitive areas, nor any unusual considerations around MBO. Allen It's good that you describe a specific approach, because all of these sorts of questions depend critically on the approach one is flying. For the KMBO VOR-A approach, the missed approach point is at MAFCA which is west of the runway. When I reached MAFCA, if I had the field in sight, the runway would be ahead of me, and crossing my flight path. So I would turn right to enter the left downwind, and fly a normal left handed pattern. If, at MAFCA, I did not have the runway in sight, I would be executing a missed approach. In addition to the above considerations, there is also the fact that the minimum visibility for this approach (for a Category A a/c) is one mile. MAFCA is only 1000' from the runway. If I do not pick up the runway prior to MAFCA, it is likely I will not have the required visibility to make the approach. (Not definite, as there could be an obstruction to visibility that clears up directly over the airport). So it is likely that if I just barely see the airport upon reaching the MAP, I'll have to execute a "miss" anyway. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#14
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Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never stated
that it was under the C airspace. "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:10:18 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote: The sectional may also show that MBO is actually in or partially in the surface to 4000AGL Class C airspace since it is so close to Jackson. If that is the case, then the viz and cloud clearance requirements would preclude that VFR traffic from LEGALLY operating. I reviewed data prior to MY posting which indicates the contrary to your assumption. With regard to your specific statement regarding the CCA, over MBO the floor of the CCA is at 1700'MSL (or 1374' AGL). Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#15
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:07:04 -0400, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
In addition to the above considerations, there is also the fact that the minimum visibility for this approach (for a Category A a/c) is one mile. MAFCA is only 1000' from the runway. If I do not pick up the runway prior to MAFCA, it is likely I will not have the required visibility to make the approach. (Not definite, as there could be an obstruction to visibility that clears up directly over the airport). So it is likely that if I just barely see the airport upon reaching the MAP, I'll have to execute a "miss" anyway. Thanks Ron! You did clear up one thing. I was thinking that 5.0 DME was mid field for MBO, when in reality it is MAFCA. Duhh, read the chart Allen..... If you are interested, http://www.archive.org/details/ALieb...pproachintoMBO is the actual approach. I took a VFR pilot friend up who had never been in IMC. File is 40 meg. For my DSL, it takes 2 1/2 minutes to download. This was the first time I did it by myself down this close to minimums. Ceilings were right at 1000, and visibility was about 2 miles below the ceiling. I broke out 4.8 DME from the JAN VOR. Couple of things to note... Below NAV one, I have a "digital" VOR. It tells me what radial I am on when I switch it from NAV1 or NAV2. I can tell it to indicate to or from the VOR. So, you can see, I was as close as I can be on that 137 radial. I overshot final, as I didn't take into account the tail wind on my turn to base. I had a 40 knot tail wind! Surface winds were 21 gusting to 29 knots, so I did a no flaps landing. I have done the approach with my instructor 2 other times right at minimums in my IFR training, and when we broke out, it was right at mid field, which maybe because of my prior experiences had in my mind that mid field was MAFCA for my missed approaches. On these two approaches we used 17. There was one other lesson, where we did a missed approach for the real deal, as ceilings dropped below minimums after we left. I have noticed in my experiences that the ceilings tend to be a little higher east of the field. Probably the reservoir has something to do with that, though I don't know for sure. Allen |
#16
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:15:48 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote:
Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never stated that it was under the C airspace. Sorry about that. After I typed and hit send I realized it sounded harsh. And I did not intend that. Usually I check my posts for that sort of thing, but I was in a hurry. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#17
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:18:31 -0500, A Lieberman
wrote: Thanks Ron! You're welcome. A few things to keep in mind: 1. Low visibility *circling* approaches are tough. And they get more tough with faster/larger a/c. I have been told that a number of the commercial carriers are far more restrictive with regard to circling approaches than the FAA minimums. 2. There are many non-precision approaches (although MBO is not one of them) where, if you do not see the airport until reaching the MAP, you will not be "continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers" which is one of the requirements to operate below the MDA (91.175). 3. I think your DSL is faster than my wireless ISP. But it was an interesting video. I've not done anything like that, but I can see where it could be a great learning tool. And you'll get used to compensating for the wind as you gain more experience; but we all still screw up from time to time, in any number of ways. Always remember to have fun. And remember: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement" :-) Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#18
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A Lieberman writes: [...] If you are interested, http://www.archive.org/details/ALieb...pproachintoMBO is the actual approach. [...] This was the first time I did it by myself down this close to minimums. [...] Unless I misheard the video, your stall warning horn came on a few times during the downwind-to-final turn. Be careful, so you can keep making neat approaches. - FChE |
#19
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On 15 May 2005 08:52:05 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
Unless I misheard the video, your stall warning horn came on a few times during the downwind-to-final turn. Be careful, so you can keep making neat approaches. *smile* You did hear correctly, and if you noticed, immediately after the chirps, I decreased my bank and increased power. Spin at that altitude would not be pretty.... Allen |
#20
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No problem. I may be oversensitive from some other newsgroups where the
shotguns are always out and blasting away! "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:15:48 -0400, "Paul Lynch" wrote: Lighten up man. I stated I did not have the sectional and you never stated that it was under the C airspace. Sorry about that. After I typed and hit send I realized it sounded harsh. And I did not intend that. Usually I check my posts for that sort of thing, but I was in a hurry. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
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