Airplane prices are ridiculous, Pt.2

wrote in message
...
Mxsmanic wrote:
sambodidley writes:

A private pilot without a medical or the hopes of ever having another
one
would be restricted to the Sport Pilot limits in a LSA. But that is
all
moot anyhow if he can't afford the LSA.

And a private pilot also needs a medical to get his license, so that
makes it
moot as well. If he loses his medical, he's not eligible for a Sport
Pilot
certificate.

If your medical has been denied, you can't fly airplanes period.

If you have ever had a private and it hasn't been revoked, you can fly as
a sport pilot.

There is no way to downgrade a private certificate to a sport pilot
certificate.


--
Jim Pennino

Litterally true as specifically stated, but a practical solution for an
individual in a particular individual could still include gliders or
ultralight vehicles.

BTW, that nomenclature drives my nuts!

Peter

On Sep 12, 12:12*am, wrote:
a wrote:
On Sep 11, 9:45*pm, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

A private pilot by definition is flying for fun.

He can fly for business purposes, within narrow limits. But if he flies for
business, he'll need an instrument rating, or he'll have to accept that he may
not be able to profit from the airplane as often as he'd like.

Very narrow limits or he needs a commercial certificate.

And as far as an instrument rating goes, it depends heavily on where you
are.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Do tell me about your perception of narrow limits. Use of a general
aviation airplane for business purposes is pretty much like the use of
a car for business purposes.

Nope.

I used to think that.

There is a long series of articles on the subject on the AOPA web site by
the resident AOPA lawyer.

I would suggest you read them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim, my financial guys and I stay pretty much on top of the way we use
my g a aircraft and cover its costs. Much depends on keeping accurate
records, and we do that. There is no attempt to bundle personal
pleasure flying with that done to advance business interests. Nothing,
on the other hand, prevents me from enjoying that piloting that's
associated with business, just as nothing prevents me from enjoying
the business I am in. This parade, with the current rules, is not
getting rained on.

"sambodidley" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
news sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
...
lucky lindy wrote:

wrote
I guess it's okay for people flying for fun, particularly if they
cannot
pass
a medical.


Exactly! That's what I'd be doing too, if I could afford it. Isn't
that
the whole idea of the Sport Pilot certificate. Why else would
someone
with
a PPL want to restrict himself with a LSA? The good old days when
almost
any airport had a couple of stick-and-rudder tail draggers around
for
rental
are long gone. Recreation flying has become out of reach for many.
But
what the hell, I can't afford a Beemer, either. grin

How would a private pilot be restricted by flying a LSA?


Jim Pennino

A private pilot without a medical or the hopes of ever having another
one
would be restricted to the Sport Pilot limits in a LSA. But that is
all
moot anyhow if he can't afford the LSA.

And those limits would be?

Keep in mind if you have a private, you already have all the Sport
Pilot
optional training.


--
Jim Pennino

Jim,
See my reply to Mxsmanic. The limits are explained in Part 61
concerning using a drivers license for a medical. If you have a private
pilot certificate AND a current medical certificate then there are no
restrictions on you for flying a LSA with the same ratings covered by
the
ratings on your private pilot certificate. (Mine are Single Engine Land)
If
you have no current medical certificate and are using your drivers
license
then you are restricted to the same limits as a Sport Pilot while flying
a
LSA.

Almost correct; you are restricted to the same limits as a sport pilot
who
has all the additional optional training.

The net result if you do not have a current medical:

You can not fly at night, above 10,000 feet, tow, fly IFR, or fly outside
of
the USA.




--
Jim Pennino

Granted. But all of that is of little use if I still can't afford to use
those privileges. At one time I could, but that is no longer practical.
To begin with, I live in a rural area and the nearest airport with any
kind of rentals is over 100 mile away. Even those have few or no LSA
rentals. Man, I came from the era back when every podunk town with a
little grass strip airport had a few tandem tail draggers for rent.
That scene has vanished from the earth. Recreation flying as I knew it
doesn't exist any longer. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. It's just
different now and it left me behind when it changed.

There is very clearly a long term economic problem in the US as well as in
the other so called "advanced" economies, and a lot of that appears due to a
conbination of excessive imports, excessive immigration, and lots of
government rules that decrease real overall productivity per worker as it is
seen in a usefull way by real families--all of which does absolutely nothing
to solve your problem.

The only obvious individual, or local, solution is really an old fashioned
one: find several future and/or former pilots of like mind and similar
circumstance and form a partnership to purchase and/or build one or more
aircraft fitting your mission. A partnership or flying club could make a
used aircraft practical and many of the old plans for homebuild aircraft are
still on the market--the EAA has some available, Aircraft Spruce has others
available, and Kitplanes probably still publishes an annual compilation of
many of the plans and kits available from a wide variety of surces.

Peter

sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
...
sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
news sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
...
lucky lindy wrote:

wrote
I guess it's okay for people flying for fun, particularly if they
cannot
pass
a medical.


Exactly! That's what I'd be doing too, if I could afford it. Isn't
that
the whole idea of the Sport Pilot certificate. Why else would
someone
with
a PPL want to restrict himself with a LSA? The good old days when
almost
any airport had a couple of stick-and-rudder tail draggers around for
rental
are long gone. Recreation flying has become out of reach for many.
But
what the hell, I can't afford a Beemer, either. grin

How would a private pilot be restricted by flying a LSA?


Jim Pennino

A private pilot without a medical or the hopes of ever having another
one
would be restricted to the Sport Pilot limits in a LSA. But that is
all
moot anyhow if he can't afford the LSA.

And those limits would be?

Keep in mind if you have a private, you already have all the Sport Pilot
optional training.


--
Jim Pennino

Jim,
See my reply to Mxsmanic. The limits are explained in Part 61
concerning using a drivers license for a medical. If you have a private
pilot certificate AND a current medical certificate then there are no
restrictions on you for flying a LSA with the same ratings covered by the
ratings on your private pilot certificate. (Mine are Single Engine Land)
If
you have no current medical certificate and are using your drivers
license
then you are restricted to the same limits as a Sport Pilot while flying
a
LSA.

Almost correct; you are restricted to the same limits as a sport pilot who
has all the additional optional training.

The net result if you do not have a current medical:

You can not fly at night, above 10,000 feet, tow, fly IFR, or fly outside
of
the USA.




--
Jim Pennino

Granted. But all of that is of little use if I still can't afford to use
those privileges. At one time I could, but that is no longer practical.
To begin with, I live in a rural area and the nearest airport with any kind
of rentals is over 100 mile away. Even those have few or no LSA rentals.
Man, I came from the era back when every podunk town with a little grass
strip airport had a few tandem tail draggers for rent. That scene has
vanished from the earth. Recreation flying as I knew it doesn't exist any
longer. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. It's just different now and it
left me behind when it changed.

Well, if you snooze, you lose.

The LSA concept is new while all those old tail draggers are now mostly
scrap.

FBO's are slowly accepting LSA's into their fleets as the modern replacement
for those old tail draggers and C150's you can't get anymore.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Peter Dohm wrote:
wrote in message
...
Mxsmanic wrote:
sambodidley writes:

A private pilot without a medical or the hopes of ever having another
one
would be restricted to the Sport Pilot limits in a LSA. But that is
all
moot anyhow if he can't afford the LSA.

And a private pilot also needs a medical to get his license, so that
makes it
moot as well. If he loses his medical, he's not eligible for a Sport
Pilot
certificate.

If your medical has been denied, you can't fly airplanes period.

If you have ever had a private and it hasn't been revoked, you can fly as
a sport pilot.

There is no way to downgrade a private certificate to a sport pilot
certificate.


--
Jim Pennino

Litterally true as specifically stated, but a practical solution for an
individual in a particular individual could still include gliders or
ultralight vehicles.

Yeah, depends on what it is you are really after.

If it is just to fly, ultralights are dirt cheap.

If it is to fly somewhere, i.e. a weekend in Vegas, LSA is the bottom entry
point.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 12, 1:00*pm, wrote:
a wrote:
On Sep 12, 12:12*am, wrote:
a wrote:
On Sep 11, 9:45*pm, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

A private pilot by definition is flying for fun.

He can fly for business purposes, within narrow limits. But if he flies for
business, he'll need an instrument rating, or he'll have to accept that he may
not be able to profit from the airplane as often as he'd like.

Very narrow limits or he needs a commercial certificate.

And as far as an instrument rating goes, it depends heavily on where you
are.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Do tell me about your perception of narrow limits. Use of a general
aviation airplane for business purposes is pretty much like the use of
a car for business purposes.

Nope.

I used to think that.

There is a long series of articles on the subject on the AOPA web site by
the resident AOPA lawyer.

I would suggest you read them.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim, my financial guys and I stay pretty much on top of the way we use
my g a aircraft and cover its costs. Much depends on keeping accurate
records, and we do that. There is no attempt to bundle personal
pleasure flying with that done to advance business interests. Nothing,
on the other hand, prevents me from enjoying that piloting that's
associated with business, just as nothing prevents me from enjoying
the business I am in. This parade, with the current rules, is not
getting rained on.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but for your sake I hope your
"financial guys" includes an aviation attorney.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Thanks for your concerns but we think we are not pushing any edges. We
use one of the four major accounting firms, and the partner who
supervises the annual audits of our account is well aware of where
the alligators are in that particular swamp.

"sambodidley" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"sambodidley" wrote:
Affordable rentals are no longer available and haven't been in
decades.

What is your definition of affordable rental?

Simple. What *I* can afford. YMMV

What is the largest dollar amount you would consider still affordable?

wrote in message
...
sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
...
sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
news sambodidley wrote:

wrote in message
...
lucky lindy wrote:

wrote
I guess it's okay for people flying for fun, particularly if they
cannot
pass
a medical.


Exactly! That's what I'd be doing too, if I could afford it.
Isn't
that
the whole idea of the Sport Pilot certificate. Why else would
someone
with
a PPL want to restrict himself with a LSA? The good old days when
almost
any airport had a couple of stick-and-rudder tail draggers around
for
rental
are long gone. Recreation flying has become out of reach for many.
But
what the hell, I can't afford a Beemer, either. grin

How would a private pilot be restricted by flying a LSA?


Jim Pennino

A private pilot without a medical or the hopes of ever having another
one
would be restricted to the Sport Pilot limits in a LSA. But that is
all
moot anyhow if he can't afford the LSA.

And those limits would be?

Keep in mind if you have a private, you already have all the Sport
Pilot
optional training.


--
Jim Pennino

Jim,
See my reply to Mxsmanic. The limits are explained in Part 61
concerning using a drivers license for a medical. If you have a
private
pilot certificate AND a current medical certificate then there are no
restrictions on you for flying a LSA with the same ratings covered by
the
ratings on your private pilot certificate. (Mine are Single Engine
Land)
If
you have no current medical certificate and are using your drivers
license
then you are restricted to the same limits as a Sport Pilot while
flying
a
LSA.

Almost correct; you are restricted to the same limits as a sport pilot
who
has all the additional optional training.

The net result if you do not have a current medical:

You can not fly at night, above 10,000 feet, tow, fly IFR, or fly
outside
of
the USA.




--
Jim Pennino

Granted. But all of that is of little use if I still can't afford to use
those privileges. At one time I could, but that is no longer practical.
To begin with, I live in a rural area and the nearest airport with any
kind
of rentals is over 100 mile away. Even those have few or no LSA rentals.
Man, I came from the era back when every podunk town with a little grass
strip airport had a few tandem tail draggers for rent. That scene has
vanished from the earth. Recreation flying as I knew it doesn't exist
any
longer. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. It's just different now and
it
left me behind when it changed.

Well, if you snooze, you lose.

The LSA concept is new while all those old tail draggers are now mostly
scrap.

FBO's are slowly accepting LSA's into their fleets as the modern
replacement
for those old tail draggers and C150's you can't get anymore.
\ Jim Pennino

Snoozing has nothing to do with it. Change happens, sleeping or awake.
Most all of the smaller airports with rentals no longer exist. They are,
like myself, relics of a past era. The opportunities for recreation
flying for almost anyone are just not there like they were in the past.
Yes, I know, there are many logical reasons for this but it is still a fact
no less. Most of those old grass strip airports are subdivisions with
homes on them today. Unless you live near one of the major cities there is
no place to rent any kind of plane at any price. In the rural area where I
live even some of the county airports are unattended. Some have
self-service fuel with a credit card but little else. I'm not complaining
about all this change but merely explaining why I can no longer afford to
use my pilot certificate. But I can still reflect on all the fun I
experienced when I could.

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"sambodidley" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"sambodidley" wrote:
Affordable rentals are no longer available and haven't been in
decades.

What is your definition of affordable rental?

Simple. What *I* can afford. YMMV

What is the largest dollar amount you would consider still affordable?

Well, in my case, that dollar amount would have to include the cost of
transportation to and from the nearest airport with rentals. That would be
over a 200 mile round trip for me. Keep in mind, that when I say
affordable I am speaking only as it applies to myself. If LSA rental
planes were available at some of the small airports near me I would probably
find a way to squeeze enough dollars from my budget to satisfy my current
thirst for recreational flying. Unless you live near a major urban area,
LSA rentals are just not available at any price and I can't afford to buy my
own LSA. That's what I mean by affordable.

On Sep 12, 3:28*pm, "sambodidley" wrote:

*I'm not complaining about all this change...

Well someone needs to.

---
Mark