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(USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 31st 11, 04:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tuno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 640
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o
  #2  
Old March 31st 11, 05:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
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Posts: 646
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D

On Mar 30, 9:20*pm, Tuno wrote:
For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o


  #3  
Old March 31st 11, 06:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 952
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On Mar 30, 9:00*pm, bildan wrote:
An instructor endorsement for a cockpit checkout is imposed by
insurance companies not the FAR's. *I understand your local
instructor's attitude, I'm very reluctant to endorse logbooks for
single seat gliders in which I have no experience.

I have been on the other side of this scenario needing an
endorsement. *My approach was to go to considerable lengths to find an
instructor who had considerable experience in the type if not actually
owned one. *My objective was to learn enough from him to fly the thing
safely and well. *The insurance requirement was secondary.

Bill D

On Mar 30, 9:20*pm, Tuno wrote:







For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.


Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?


The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.


I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).


The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.


~ted/2n7o


Tuno:

You know where to come - TUSC has several instructors, one of whom
owns an LS-8 and would no doubt be happy to help.

Usual beer penalty applies!

Mike
  #4  
Old March 31st 11, 06:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tuno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 640
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

Thanks Mike but Roy C arrived to help out. Otherwise I could not have
enjoyed the LS-8 flight yesterday afternoon.

It's bad enough when the gubment goonies shake regulations at us while
they're shaking us down; I didn't expect to get the outsider treatment
from the staff CFI at the gliderport where I've spent the most money
in the last six years, at the moment I was all hormoned up to get back
in the air after seven months of smokin' videos and soiled Soaring
centerfolds.

No offense taken though, I understand where he was coming from. Sorta.

We race this weekend

2N7O
  #5  
Old March 31st 11, 11:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T8
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Posts: 429
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

That's a pretty heavy dose of CYA, all around.

I can see it now.

"Gee, you mean I bought this brand new ASH-31 and no one will check me
out?" C'mon.

Y'all are taking the gummint mindset way too far.

-Evan Ludeman / T8
  #6  
Old March 31st 11, 01:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

Since cockpit checks are insurance rules and not gov't rules why the
fear of giving cockpit check signoffs? What is the insurance company
going to do to a CFI for a giving a cockpit check prior to an
accident(causal or not)?
  #7  
Old March 31st 11, 02:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
qflyer1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On Mar 31, 8:56*am, "
wrote:
Since cockpit checks are insurance rules and not gov't rules why the
fear of giving cockpit check signoffs? *What is the insurance company
going to do to a CFI for a giving a cockpit check prior to an
accident(causal or not)?


As a CFIG, I just make sure the pilot is familiar with the operating
limits, speeds, handling characteristics, etc.
I also like him or her to close their eyes and grab spoilers, flaps,
gear, etc.
In other words, I want to know they are prepped well.
No, I don't believe I have flown everything, yet...

Cheers,
Tim
  #8  
Old March 31st 11, 02:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 194
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On Mar 30, 11:20*pm, Tuno wrote:
For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o


What's the big deal..?

A cockpit checkout is pretty simple....just get the POH and sit down
for a while and get familiar......a cockpit check out is not a flight
check out.....

I mean its like..ok, where's the flap handle?...ok now where's the
spoiler handle?...ok release?...canopy jettison? etc...now let's make
you're seat comfy...

I have "cockpit checked" lots of pilots in gliders models which I
have not flown......Gliders are not all that different from one to
another........If someone is around with personal experience in this
model, I will definitely bring him in on the discussion....but not
necessary....

If they guy just bought the New Super XL5000 glider....it is up to him
to be flight competent...The pilot should consult with some
experienced people to answer any questions on handling...special
techniques, any quirks etc. I have occasionaly suggested some more
dual training and solo experience before the guy flies his new toy!


Cookie
  #9  
Old March 31st 11, 02:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony V
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 175
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On 3/30/2011 11:20 PM, Tuno wrote:

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else,


I would have, and have in the past, endorsed a pilot for a glider type
that I have never flown, IF the actual check out was done by a pilot
that I knew to have extensive experience in type and if I was present
while it was being performed. I learn something too. As others have
said, it's an insurance company requirement.

Tony V.
  #10  
Old March 31st 11, 02:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default (USA) logbook endorsement requirement(s) for new glider type?

On Mar 30, 11:20*pm, Tuno wrote:
For as long as I've been flying anything, including and especially
gliders, I've had a CFI endorse a cockpit checkout in my logbook, for
any new aircraft type I flew.

Can someone tell me what/who requires this? Is it strictly insurance
companies, or is there a relevant FAR paragraph?

The reason I'm asking is that when I went to the local gliderport
yesterday to get a cockpit checkout in the LS-8, the on duty CFI
declined to sign an endorsement conducted by someone else, and he
would not do the checkout himself because he was not an LS-8 pilot.

I can't imagine that every CFI is able to personally conduct cockpit
checkouts in all glider types (with all due respect, Mr Compton).

The last six such checkouts I've received were performed by a non-CFI
and signed off by a CFI.

~ted/2n7o


Glad to see you're finally stepping up to a real glider. We don't
need no stinkin' flaps.

I get asked to do the cockpit checkouts all of the time and do them
gladly. I don't agree that it's always a no-brainer. Each ship
usually has one or two quirks that are worth knowing about. I sit
with the owner/seller and the new pilot on any ship I'm not familiar
with and ask a few questions about the stuff that's NOT really in the
POH. If it's something out of the ordinary (an early Diamant comes to
mind), I'll do a LOT more work as the CFI-G to be ready for that
one. "Hello, Mr. Moffat..."

Just for example, I guarandamntee you that as a Schleicher driver, you
will absolutely haul back on the canopy release on the LS8 under
stress in one of your early flights (rolled out a little short
blocking the runway with someone coming in behind you). If you pull
the right handle one "click" past the normal stops (very easy to do
with a little extra adrenaline), you'll suddenly find yourself withe
the canopy floating in your lap. Safety of flight issue? Probably
not. Potential to break a $3,000 canopy. Yup.

Sorry, not really what you asked.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)




 




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