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"The New Soldier" by John Kerry et al
Apparently John Kerry co-authored a book in 1971 called "The New
Soldier." There seems to be varying differences of opinion about how much of it he actually wrote (other than his US Senate testimony during the "Winter Soldier" hearings), but his name is certainly prominently displayed on the cover (see http://www.newsmax.com/images/headli...NewSoldier.jpg or http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...newsol_cov.jpg). Copies are apparently going for several hundreds of dollars on eBay; talk of a cover-up and the liberal Democrats trying to destroy all copies seem far-fetched (try finding copies of any obscure book from 1971), although there are rumours that both copies are currently 'unavailable' at the Library of Congress. Has anyone with military service actually read "The New Soldier" and can comment on it contents? His "Winter Soldier" testimony apparently quoted in the book is certainly still controversial: "Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GIs as so brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen killers. He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." There's a NGO link quoting some of Kerry's testimony at: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...er_sfrc_71.htm. There are also discussions of the accuracy of the testimony, such as: "After Senator Mark O. Hatfield read the Winter Soldier testimony into the Congressional Record, he asked for an official investigation. When the Naval Investigate Service did just that, many of the veterans refused to cooperate (despite protections against self-incrimination). One soldier admitted that his testimony had been coached by members of the Nation of Islam; exact details of the atrocity he'd seen now escaped his memory. Several veterans hunted down by Naval investigators swore they had never been to Detroit and couldn't imagine who would have used their identities. (Somehow this episode was left out of the "Winter Soldier" chapter of Brinkley's book, but the details can be found in Guenter Lewy's "America in Vietnam" and in Mackubin Thomas Owens's account in the latest National Review.)" - http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...ljiby.asp?pg=2 Lots of conflicting stories, such as: - http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm - http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/...0402130943.asp - http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/131219.shtml |
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Were you even alive in those days?
Here is the deal. It will never be settled. It wasn't settled back then and it won't be settled now. For the next several elections, the candidates will all have been on the wrong side of the argument according to some folks. Bottom line is: we all took our stands at the time, all were flawed by a system that was inherently flawed and there were no winners. Just let it go. Loki "Stop SPAM" wrote in message ... Apparently John Kerry co-authored a book in 1971 called "The New Soldier." There seems to be varying differences of opinion about how much of it he actually wrote (other than his US Senate testimony during the "Winter Soldier" hearings), but his name is certainly prominently displayed on the cover (see http://www.newsmax.com/images/headli...NewSoldier.jpg or http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...newsol_cov.jpg). Copies are apparently going for several hundreds of dollars on eBay; talk of a cover-up and the liberal Democrats trying to destroy all copies seem far-fetched (try finding copies of any obscure book from 1971), although there are rumours that both copies are currently 'unavailable' at the Library of Congress. Has anyone with military service actually read "The New Soldier" and can comment on it contents? His "Winter Soldier" testimony apparently quoted in the book is certainly still controversial: "Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GIs as so brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen killers. He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." There's a NGO link quoting some of Kerry's testimony at: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...er_sfrc_71.htm. There are also discussions of the accuracy of the testimony, such as: "After Senator Mark O. Hatfield read the Winter Soldier testimony into the Congressional Record, he asked for an official investigation. When the Naval Investigate Service did just that, many of the veterans refused to cooperate (despite protections against self-incrimination). One soldier admitted that his testimony had been coached by members of the Nation of Islam; exact details of the atrocity he'd seen now escaped his memory. Several veterans hunted down by Naval investigators swore they had never been to Detroit and couldn't imagine who would have used their identities. (Somehow this episode was left out of the "Winter Soldier" chapter of Brinkley's book, but the details can be found in Guenter Lewy's "America in Vietnam" and in Mackubin Thomas Owens's account in the latest National Review.)" - http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...ljiby.asp?pg=2 Lots of conflicting stories, such as: - http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm - http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/...0402130943.asp - http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/131219.shtml |
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loki wrote:
Were you even alive in those days? Yes I was, and in fact I well remember Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony. Here is the deal. It will never be settled. It wasn't settled back then and it won't be settled now. For the next several elections, the candidates will all have been on the wrong side of the argument according to some folks. I'm not interested in whether or not it is "being settled." You're right - the Vietnam conflict never will "be settled". The issue, to me, is not "settling" Vietnam. I can respect someone who is totally anti-war. They have their opinion, I have mine, and we live in a land where the First Amendment gives us both the right to have and publically state that opinion... But I abhore someone who tries to fence sit and take conflicting stands on an issue, any issue, much less one as important as the military. Kerry, IMHO, is trying to be on both sides of the issue. Trying to run as a combat vet and on your war record, and then being involved in serious protests against not only the war but against the military and its soldiers (read Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony and see what he says about American soldiers) is trying to work both sides of the issue. I'd rather have a politician who disagrees with me, but who is at least consistent in their views, than one who will change their beliefs at the drop of a hat depending on what their political consultants and pollsters tell them. And that applies equally to both the Republicans and the Democrats. Bottom line is: we all took our stands at the time, all were flawed by a system that was inherently flawed and there were no winners. Just let it go. When politicians become consistent, I will. Of course, porcines may need FAA clearance before then, but I can always hope. Loki "Stop SPAM" wrote in message ... Apparently John Kerry co-authored a book in 1971 called "The New Soldier." There seems to be varying differences of opinion about how much of it he actually wrote (other than his US Senate testimony during the "Winter Soldier" hearings), but his name is certainly prominently displayed on the cover (see http://www.newsmax.com/images/headli...NewSoldier.jpg or http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...newsol_cov.jpg). Copies are apparently going for several hundreds of dollars on eBay; talk of a cover-up and the liberal Democrats trying to destroy all copies seem far-fetched (try finding copies of any obscure book from 1971), although there are rumours that both copies are currently 'unavailable' at the Library of Congress. Has anyone with military service actually read "The New Soldier" and can comment on it contents? His "Winter Soldier" testimony apparently quoted in the book is certainly still controversial: "Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GIs as so brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen killers. He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." There's a NGO link quoting some of Kerry's testimony at: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...er_sfrc_71.htm. There are also discussions of the accuracy of the testimony, such as: "After Senator Mark O. Hatfield read the Winter Soldier testimony into the Congressional Record, he asked for an official investigation. When the Naval Investigate Service did just that, many of the veterans refused to cooperate (despite protections against self-incrimination). One soldier admitted that his testimony had been coached by members of the Nation of Islam; exact details of the atrocity he'd seen now escaped his memory. Several veterans hunted down by Naval investigators swore they had never been to Detroit and couldn't imagine who would have used their identities. (Somehow this episode was left out of the "Winter Soldier" chapter of Brinkley's book, but the details can be found in Guenter Lewy's "America in Vietnam" and in Mackubin Thomas Owens's account in the latest National Review.)" - http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...ljiby.asp?pg=2 Lots of conflicting stories, such as: - http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm - http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/...0402130943.asp - http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/131219.shtml |
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"Peter Skelton" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:30:49 -0600, Stop SPAM wrote: loki wrote: Were you even alive in those days? Yes I was, and in fact I well remember Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony. Here is the deal. It will never be settled. It wasn't settled back then and it won't be settled now. For the next several elections, the candidates will all have been on the wrong side of the argument according to some folks. I'm not interested in whether or not it is "being settled." You're right - the Vietnam conflict never will "be settled". The issue, to me, is not "settling" Vietnam. I can respect someone who is totally anti-war. They have their opinion, I have mine, and we live in a land where the First Amendment gives us both the right to have and publically state that opinion... But I abhore someone who tries to fence sit and take conflicting stands on an issue, any issue, much less one as important as the military. Kerry, IMHO, is trying to be on both sides of the issue. You have a problem with people who do their duty even if they don't like it? I believe his gist was that Kerry demonstrates a remarkable propensity for trying to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to things military related. He wants to be considered a Vietnam war hero, yet he condemned the US soldiers, airmen, and sailors who fought there as being war criminals; he wants to claim his undying dedication to all things military, yet his voting record in regards to military programs says otherwise; he wants to display his medals for his own benefit, after making a big show of tossing them in protest; he wants to condemn Bush for allegedly not serving his entire reserve committment, while he mysteriously never seemed to even *have* one himself; and he wants to pillory Bush for alleged special treatment in getting into and out of the Guard, yet he himself secured early release from both Vietnam duty and an early release from his own active duty committment. Sounds like a pretty proficient fence sitter to me... Brooks Peter Skelton |
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Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger
called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told this tale in us.military.army He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service. It was a horrible time. -- Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail WE *ARE* UMA Lemmings 404 Local |
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:08:30 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote: "Peter Skelton" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:30:49 -0600, Stop SPAM wrote: loki wrote: Were you even alive in those days? Yes I was, and in fact I well remember Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony. Here is the deal. It will never be settled. It wasn't settled back then and it won't be settled now. For the next several elections, the candidates will all have been on the wrong side of the argument according to some folks. I'm not interested in whether or not it is "being settled." You're right - the Vietnam conflict never will "be settled". The issue, to me, is not "settling" Vietnam. I can respect someone who is totally anti-war. They have their opinion, I have mine, and we live in a land where the First Amendment gives us both the right to have and publically state that opinion... But I abhore someone who tries to fence sit and take conflicting stands on an issue, any issue, much less one as important as the military. Kerry, IMHO, is trying to be on both sides of the issue. You have a problem with people who do their duty even if they don't like it? I believe his gist was that Kerry demonstrates a remarkable propensity for trying to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to things military related. He wants to be considered a Vietnam war hero, yet he condemned the US soldiers, airmen, and sailors who fought there as being war criminals; he wants to claim his undying dedication to all things military, yet his voting record in regards to military programs says otherwise; he wants to display his medals for his own benefit, after making a big show of tossing them in protest; he wants to condemn Bush for allegedly not serving his entire reserve committment, while he mysteriously never seemed to even *have* one himself; and he wants to pillory Bush for alleged special treatment in getting into and out of the Guard, yet he himself secured early release from both Vietnam duty and an early release from his own active duty committment. Sounds like a pretty proficient fence sitter to me... I think you mean fence-hopper, a fence sitter is one who takes no stands but I see your point. Unfortunately, Bush is easily tarred with the same brush. Perhaps what's really needed is a statute of limitations - nothing more than a decade old counts. Peter Skelton |
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"Douglas Berry" wrote in message ... Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told this tale in us.military.army He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service. It was a horrible time. Just what the hell do you know about it? It was painted as horrible by the News Media that kept getting in the road along with wimpy Politicians that played to the Media. Neither was the reality yet that is what you saw and even today, the media will still report it the same way. By 1973, South Vietnam WAS a better place and self governed. There was very little fightin going on after that until 1975 when the North Invaded. Up until 1975, the North had problems even raising and equipping a small army. The Tet offensive (all parts of it) and the 1972 attacks into Loas and Cambodia by the US, Thailand, South Korea, Australia and a host of others removed their ability to wage any type of war. It was the Politicos and the media that lost it, not the troops. The Troops won it only to have it handed to the North on a Silver Platter. You keep reading your slanted crap but others of us will report what really went on. Kerry is a politico and not a Warrior and anything he had to do with the organization that Jane Fonda was in would have been considered treasonise under WWII, Korea or WWI and back and would have been punishable by up to death. We sure have come a long way when a Traitor gets to run for president. Harry S. where are you when we need you. |
#8
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I just went online with my local (university) library. Guess what happens when I try to sign it out? AVAILABLE This item cannot be requested. Please see a librarian. Never saw that response before! I'll drive uptown tomorrow and have a look. On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, Stop SPAM wrote: Apparently John Kerry co-authored a book in 1971 called "The New Soldier." There seems to be varying differences of opinion about how much of it he actually wrote (other than his US Senate testimony during the "Winter Soldier" hearings), but his name is certainly prominently displayed on the cover (see http://www.newsmax.com/images/headli...NewSoldier.jpg or http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...newsol_cov.jpg). Copies are apparently going for several hundreds of dollars on eBay; talk of a cover-up and the liberal Democrats trying to destroy all copies seem far-fetched (try finding copies of any obscure book from 1971), although there are rumours that both copies are currently 'unavailable' at the Library of Congress. Has anyone with military service actually read "The New Soldier" and can comment on it contents? His "Winter Soldier" testimony apparently quoted in the book is certainly still controversial: "Much of Kerry's speech before Congress painted his fellow GIs as so brutal that, today, they could easily be mistaken for Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen killers. He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." There's a NGO link quoting some of Kerry's testimony at: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...er_sfrc_71.htm. There are also discussions of the accuracy of the testimony, such as: "After Senator Mark O. Hatfield read the Winter Soldier testimony into the Congressional Record, he asked for an official investigation. When the Naval Investigate Service did just that, many of the veterans refused to cooperate (despite protections against self-incrimination). One soldier admitted that his testimony had been coached by members of the Nation of Islam; exact details of the atrocity he'd seen now escaped his memory. Several veterans hunted down by Naval investigators swore they had never been to Detroit and couldn't imagine who would have used their identities. (Somehow this episode was left out of the "Winter Soldier" chapter of Brinkley's book, but the details can be found in Guenter Lewy's "America in Vietnam" and in Mackubin Thomas Owens's account in the latest National Review.)" - http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...ljiby.asp?pg=2 Lots of conflicting stories, such as: - http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm - http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/...0402130943.asp - http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/131219.shtml all the best -- Dan Ford email: see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:19:47 GMT, Douglas Berry
wrote: Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:46:07 -0600, a stranger called by some Stop SPAM came forth and told this tale in us.military.army He reported to Congress that U.S. soldiers had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." They did. Vietnam was a brutal conflict, and near the end American command and control began breaking down. Soldiers did do all these tuhings, feeling abandoned by their nation and service. I disagree. I will admit that there were _incidents_ where these acts occurred. However, Kerry tried to make it look like all the US soldiers were behaving like this. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message. |
#10
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