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#21
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:58:41 -0500, dave
wrote: Dave, I did a lot of my private with Azher in a J3. When I got my Citabria, 7eca, Azher did my check out. I hadn't flown a taildragger in a few years and my landing were consistantly too fast. He noticed that I was spending too much time looking at my airspeed. He had me land without looking at the airspeed. It's hard not to peek but once you cut the throttle abeam the numbers, just fly the correct attitude. I'm not sure if that would work with the SD but it really helped me. Although I'm sure that you can fly a faster downwind, I found that it really helped me to slow to 90MPH on downwind. Of course, in my airplane slowing to 90 isn't too far off cruise speed BTW, both times I was scheduled to fly with Azher in the SD it was down for maintenance. The first time we ended up taking the Great Lakes. The second time was for my BFR and we took the Stearman. One of these days, I really like to fly an SD!! Maybe I shouldn't, it might make me want to sell my 7ECA and upgade. Dave 68 7ECA wrote: Great advice Dave. I guess I'll listen to you even if you have only a few hundred hours in the SD. ;-) Dave Dave and Dave, I am toying with the idea of working on a taildragger endorsement this summer. I've been to VanSant a number of times but always on my motorcycle, never flew there. I currenty rent at N10 and KLOM. Would you guys recommend VanSant as a good choice for this training? Rich Russell (no relation to one of the Daves) |
#22
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Absolutely! You can still train in a cub or a champ. Just make sure
you book well in advance. It's best if you can schedule time on weekdays. Dave 68 7ECA Richard Russell wrote: On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:58:41 -0500, dave wrote: Dave, I did a lot of my private with Azher in a J3. When I got my Citabria, 7eca, Azher did my check out. I hadn't flown a taildragger in a few years and my landing were consistantly too fast. He noticed that I was spending too much time looking at my airspeed. He had me land without looking at the airspeed. It's hard not to peek but once you cut the throttle abeam the numbers, just fly the correct attitude. I'm not sure if that would work with the SD but it really helped me. Although I'm sure that you can fly a faster downwind, I found that it really helped me to slow to 90MPH on downwind. Of course, in my airplane slowing to 90 isn't too far off cruise speed BTW, both times I was scheduled to fly with Azher in the SD it was down for maintenance. The first time we ended up taking the Great Lakes. The second time was for my BFR and we took the Stearman. One of these days, I really like to fly an SD!! Maybe I shouldn't, it might make me want to sell my 7ECA and upgade. Dave 68 7ECA wrote: Great advice Dave. I guess I'll listen to you even if you have only a few hundred hours in the SD. ;-) Dave Dave and Dave, I am toying with the idea of working on a taildragger endorsement this summer. I've been to VanSant a number of times but always on my motorcycle, never flew there. I currenty rent at N10 and KLOM. Would you guys recommend VanSant as a good choice for this training? Rich Russell (no relation to one of the Daves) |
#23
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perfect thread for me since i just did my first tailwheel lesson yesterday. citabria 7gcbc. runway 9 wind 180@15 or so. some gustiness but mostly just a strong-steady blow. for a first lesson i sure got my money's worth. by the end, she had me running on one wheel and holding it right down the centerline. plan on getting the tw endorsment then some aerobatics and lots of spin and unusual (like in how the hell did i wind up upside down and backwards???)attitude training. dan |
#24
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#25
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rmack,
Trim the airplane more aggressively on short final if you are having difficulty getting the nose up. Slide in some extra nose up trim when on short final, it will help. If you run out of elevator, slide in nose down trim to get more effective elevator area but be prepared to pull like crazy to take advantage of it. It's impossible to get it "too nose high" on landing. Believe it or not, it's okay to roll the tailwheel first. You touch down even more slowly and have better control and less risk of a loss of control accident on rollout. The slower you touch down the less energy you have to manage during rollout. All the best, Rick |
#26
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On 12 Jan 2005 08:25:57 -0800, wrote:
And yes, the leaf gear will spread far enough on a bounce to allow a prop strike. So will the bugees on a Cub. Don't ask me how I know! -- all the best, Dan Ford email (put Cubdriver in subject line) Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com the blog: www.danford.net |
#27
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With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it
seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't claim to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a lot of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing since the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing to a full stop...isn't it? In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft, dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work from/on. The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron coordination for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy. It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so. There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole. Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are doing? There is the challenge. Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time) |
#28
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wrote in message oups.com... With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't claim to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a lot of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing since the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing to a full stop...isn't it? In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft, dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work from/on. The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron coordination for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy. It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so. There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole. Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are doing? There is the challenge. Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time) Are you telling me I work my airplanes at too high an airspeed, and am advising others to do the same? Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired for private email; make necessary changes between ( ) dhenriques(at)(delete all this)earthlink(dot)net |
#29
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Todd
So, if the tailwheel touches first, does that make it a tailwheel landing? Or, if the mains touch first followed a millisecond later by the tail, does that make it a 3 point? Are we talking split hairs here or what? OK, what is the difference in the attitude of the aircraft for a 3 point vs a wheel landing? If the mains touch first and the tailwheel is 2" off the ground, does that make it a wheel landing, or is it simply a lazy 3 point? Could it possibly have anything to do with the aircraft, how the pilot is seated, his/her visibility forward, the weight of the aircraft/loading, or any myriad of factors that affect the touchdown? Hell every landing is a unique animal and event regardless of the aircraft flown or the conditions. And, as a pompous note, the 20-30,000 landings in tail wheel aircraft do not take into account the thousands of other landings included in 22,000 hours of flying. I'm delighted to see my reply has generated so much comment. It's almost as if I insulted the abilities of everyone on the board who is flying or has ever flown an airplane with a tail wheel. When I began flying, the trikes were still new in general aviation back in the 50's. Hell I don't have all the answers but I've probably made more mistakes than any 100 pilots here put together and somehow managed to survive them. That seems to indicate I may have learned something from it all? Grinning Best Regards Ol Shy & Bashful |
#30
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Dudley
Of course not. Your points are well taken. Why not take a hard look at my point of view as well? I still think too many pilots simply are afraid of working in the low airspeed region where most accidents are developed and happen. Forget the high performance aircraft that you are fond of and think of the low speed stuff that most of the pilots here fly. Why are there stall/spin accidents? Because the pilots didn't know how to fly in the low speed region and got crossed up. Was it because of cruise speed? Nope. It was in the pattern and misuse of speed or at least lower speeds. How about running out of runway? A blown approach due to excess speed and unable to make the first 1/3 of the runway (assuming it is shorter than 5000'). I'll still maintain, most modern pilots don't know how to fly at the lowest range of their aircraft envelope and that is a major contributor to accidents. Best Professional Regards Rocky |
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