4130 frame?

Steve Thomas wrote:

J,

Thanks for that helpful insight. I will keep it all in mind. Sice I do not
have a TIG machine or experience using one, and I do not have much
experience using a torch to weld with, would it be kosher to tack the pieces
together with a MIG and then have a professional welder finish the process
by using a torch? The local pro that I have used in the past for various
projects gave me the impression that he would rather weld with his a/o torch
than his TIG machine.

--
Have a good one!

Steve

A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023 instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66% of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa

"Richard Lamb" wrote in message
...
A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

spektr wrote:

Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023 instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66% of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa


Yep.
And there in lies the rub, at least according to the old timers.
That tiny intensly heated bead can lock in strong stresses.
Which suggests post weldeding stress relief (old argument).

With a neutral flame...

I bought a Hobart 135 to build my shop.
Later sold it for more than I paid for it (because it had a
new roll of wire on it at the time and bought my O/A rig
for working on the Tailwind.

Each has merits.
Could probably justify both if you have the pockets.

But I prefer the torch for welding thin wall stuff.

Richard

Richard,

Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" wrote in message
...


Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to
set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity
is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66%
of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid
and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with
the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa

"Richard Lamb" wrote in message
...
A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

Hi Steve.

Go to any decent welding supplier.
They will have any wire you need as
well as the tips for the mig gun. They
need to be changed to the correct size.
Most guns use standard TWECO
parts. Make sure you blow out the liner
when you change wire and it might be a
good time to consider a lube pad between
the rollers and liner. Makes for much
smoother feeding of the filler wire.

Scott


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
Richard,

Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" wrote in message
...


Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to
set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels
etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity
is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66%
of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid
and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with
the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa

"Richard Lamb" wrote in message
...
A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

Scott,

Great tips! Thanks. These are the little things that make jobs go smoother
and make them more enjoyable.

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" wrote in message
...
Hi Steve.

Go to any decent welding supplier.
They will have any wire you need as
well as the tips for the mig gun. They
need to be changed to the correct size.
Most guns use standard TWECO
parts. Make sure you blow out the liner
when you change wire and it might be a
good time to consider a lube pad between
the rollers and liner. Makes for much
smoother feeding of the filler wire.

Scott


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
Richard,

Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" wrote in message
...


Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators
to
set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035
wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels
etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc
intensity
is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is
66%
of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in
many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely
liquid
and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line
with
the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa

"Richard Lamb" wrote in message
...
A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

Yes, Maule does it every day.


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?

What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?

Thanks,

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com

I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of you
guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My frame
currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using angle
in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle? Or
better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"log" wrote in message
...
Yes, Maule does it every day.


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?

What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?

Thanks,

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com

Steve.

If you want to use 4130 angls, they are available from lots of
different places. If you don't like the prices, use plates and
weld them up yourself. You can have plate brake bent and
slice out what you need. Lots of ways to get it done,
don't get locked into mixing stuff like 1018 to 4130 because you
are having a tough time thinking it out. Think it out CLEARLY.
Go find yourself an EAA chapter and get a hold of one of
their Tech Counsellors. They are really nice to work with
and usually respond quite favorably to steak and beer.
Proper planning of the task ensures trouble free completion.

Scott Correa


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of
you
guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My
frame
currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using
angle
in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle?
Or
better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"log" wrote in message
...
Yes, Maule does it every day.


"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
nk.net...
Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?

What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?

Thanks,

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:02:50 GMT, "Steve Thomas"
wrote:

I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of you
guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My frame
currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using angle
in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle? Or
better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?

You can weld 4130 to mild steel. You can weld many other weldable
alloys to 4130.