Another YouTube video

The planes in that video look expensive. I wonder why anyone would pay
that kind of money just to take off, fly around for a few minutes, and
then come back and land? Maybe the point of this sport is to have an
after-launch-and-landing-BBQ? Could this be the family angle mentioned
by the yes-I-talk-very-slowly narrator? Very confusing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgvVA5jXO2E


I think the real problem with youth recruiting is that we just drive them
away with videos like this unfortunate SSA release.

Bill Daniels

Anyone who spends any time on "marketing" will tell you that step 1 is
to carefully segment your market. Having done that, you then figure
out what appeals to each of your segments and market appropriately.
In our case, it's pretty clear that we can/should have many target
markets. What works for the under 25 set may not and probably will
not appeal to the 50 and over set.

My neighbor recently left a cushy corporate marketing job to found his
own firm which specifically targets the under 30 crowd. Recently,
he's been involved in huge marketing efforts for NASCAR. Surprisingly
(at least ot me), NASCAR has an image problem in being perceived as
having a redneck, low income fan base (no offense to anyone who fits
into either or both of those categories). NASCAR wants to get more
advertising and sponsorship dollars from a different group of
companies. They go to a marketing firm which caters to the new
segment to drive interest, which then convinces the sponsoring
companies to sign up.

Anyway, this is a good discussion, since it helps to highlight the
fact that what we're selling depends to some extent on who we're
selling to. It's very hard for the adherents to step out of their
shoes and remember that it may not be easy to convert the great
unwashed.

Anyway, here's to hot chicks, indie rock, and slick video editing
(yeah, I know, I'm in trouble now).

P3

On Aug 13, 4:37 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"Dan G" wrote in message

ups.com...


Mind you, there's actually good reasons for appealing to the older
demographic, rather than the younger. They tend to have plenty of
money and, post kids, plenty of time. A person who takes up gliding at
50 can be an active member for 20 years or more. Young people tend to
be the opposite - no money, no time. I personally think "targetting" a
particular demographic is a waste of time - make the sport accessible,
and you'll get people of all types rolling up.

Dan

Dan, I don't agree. Young people can't be pigeonholed that easily. Some
are poor and have little time but others are in a position to enjoy our
sport. We only need as many as we have gliders and instructors for.

Kids 'make time' for whatever they want to do. Obviously more than a few
have both time and money. Take a look at other extreme outdoor sports and
the marketing. They all pitch expensive sports to young people. They
wouldn't do this if it didn't work.

I think the real problem with youth recruiting is that we just drive them
away with videos like this unfortunate SSA release.

Bill Daniels- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The commentator on the SSA video sounds to me as if
he is either bored to death, or gliding is dead boring!

Have a look at this video produced by the Polish Gliding
Team - much better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTR93Hf9gjI

Del C

At 21:12 13 August 2007, Greg Arnold wrote:
The planes in that video look expensive. I wonder
why anyone would pay
that kind of money just to take off, fly around for
a few minutes, and
then come back and land? Maybe the point of this sport
is to have an
after-launch-and-landing-BBQ? Could this be the family
angle mentioned
by the yes-I-talk-very-slowly narrator? Very confusing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgvVA5jXO2E


I think the real problem with youth recruiting is
that we just drive them
away with videos like this unfortunate SSA release.

Bill Daniels

At 20:42 13 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
snip

I think the real problem with youth recruiting is that
we just drive them
away with videos like this unfortunate SSA release.


Personally I think the biggest problem (and with recruiting
women as well) is a youngster or woman turning up at
a club to find they are the only one, or almost the
only one. I'm suggesting there is a 'critical mass'
kind of thing going on.

On Aug 13, 10:20 pm, Papa3 wrote:
Anyone who spends any time on "marketing" will tell you that step 1 is
to carefully segment your market. Having done that, you then figure
out what appeals to each of your segments and market appropriately.
In our case, it's pretty clear that we can/should have many target
markets. What works for the under 25 set may not and probably will
not appeal to the 50 and over set.

You can "target" some products, but only if you can tailor the product
to the market. If you can't you start selling a perception, rather
than a reality, which leads to rapid turn-over in members (to keep the
discussion to gliding).

I'm 26, and I fly in a club that happens to have a lot of younger
members, and several women too, so have a good idea of what I'm
talking about, because I'm talking about my friends and myself. There
is a high turnover in the young members in the club - only a *very*
few young people will stick with gliding through their career
advancement and starting a family. Older members have no such
limitations, and typically stacks of cash they're having trouble
spending now their children have flown the nest.

The few young people who stick with gliding for any length of time
almost always receive a lot of money from their parents, one of whom
is usually already a glider pilot. There are not many people in that
category, so it's not worth "targetting" that "market".

(Rock climbing, which is "another extreme outdoor sport" and one that
has a "young" image, is something I used to to, and I reckon that cost
me about 10% of what gliding has for the same period of time. I've
managed to stick with gliding because our club is very cheap, but as a
result has poor facilities, and it's only through drive and
stubborness that I've managed to progress at all. Many of my peers
give up and leave.)

Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight
customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is
the challenge.

If gliding clubs are interested in expansion there are lots of things
they can do. If you want to know what, the GFA have literally written
the book:

http://www.gfa.org.au/development/guide.php

Download the draft guide from the third box on the right. (There's
also the SSA Growbook, of course, which has lots of good stuff in it
too.)

Clubs have two options: follow the advice of the GFA and SSA and grow,
ignore it and shrink. As the IGC president said earlier this year,
glider pilots will place all the obstacles in the world before
themselves before they'll actually do anything, so I don't expect to
see any clubs following that guide (someone prove me wrong).


Dan

I can't quite agree that you shouldn't try to recruit
younger people, as they often have a reasonable amount
of disposable income for a few years, until they get
married, take on a mortgage to buy a house and have
children. Even if they have to give up gliding for
a few years due to financial restraints, like born
again bikers they often come back to it in middle age.
As an instructor at a large club I have had several
students recently who fit into this category. At least
they know that gliding exists.

Del C

At 10:18 14 August 2007, Dan G wrote:


I'm 26, and I fly in a club that happens to have a
lot of younger
members, and several women too, so have a good idea
of what I'm
talking about, because I'm talking about my friends
and myself. There
is a high turnover in the young members in the club
- only a *very*
few young people will stick with gliding through their
career
advancement and starting a family. Older members have
no such
limitations, and typically stacks of cash they're having
trouble
spending now their children have flown the nest.

The few young people who stick with gliding for any
length of time
almost always receive a lot of money from their parents,
one of whom
is usually already a glider pilot. There are not many
people in that
category, so it's not worth 'targetting' that 'market'.

(Rock climbing, which is 'another extreme outdoor sport'
and one that
has a 'young' image, is something I used to to, and
I reckon that cost
me about 10% of what gliding has for the same period
of time. I've
managed to stick with gliding because our club is very
cheap, but as a
result has poor facilities, and it's only through drive
and
stubborness that I've managed to progress at all. Many
of my peers
give up and leave.)

Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty
of trial flight
customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the
sport for years is
the challenge.

If gliding clubs are interested in expansion there
are lots of things
they can do. If you want to know what, the GFA have
literally written
the book:

http://www.gfa.org.au/development/guide.php

Download the draft guide from the third box on the
right. (There's
also the SSA Growbook, of course, which has lots of
good stuff in it
too.)

Clubs have two options: follow the advice of the GFA
and SSA and grow,
ignore it and shrink. As the IGC president said earlier
this year,
glider pilots will place all the obstacles in the world
before
themselves before they'll actually do anything, so
I don't expect to
see any clubs following that guide (someone prove me
wrong).

Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight
customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is
the challenge.

This is the absolute truth, as I see it. Thanks for writing this, Dan.

Tony V.

On Aug 14, 5:09 am, Sally W
wrote:
At 20:42 13 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
snip

I think the real problem with youth recruiting is that
we just drive them
away with videos like this unfortunate SSA release.

Personally I think the biggest problem (and with recruiting
women as well) is a youngster or woman turning up at
a club to find they are the only one, or almost the
only one. I'm suggesting there is a 'critical mass'
kind of thing going on.

Both of these points are accurate and need to be addressed.

Soaring should be marketed as exciting as possible, (XC, ridge,
contest, acro) and the reality should be made to fit this image. Too
many glider clubs are really, "hang around the airport all day, maybe
fly within 5 miles of the airport" clubs.

If we actually make soaring exciting again, then people will stick
with it.

On the 'critical mass' issue, I think that the best way to get youth
into it, is to work our way down from the 50yo's to the 40's, then the
30's and then 20's. It there are lots of people 5-10 years older than
you, you don't feel as out of place as if the next older person is 20+
years older.

Todd Smith
3S

On Aug 14, 12:27 pm, Del C
wrote:
I can't quite agree that you shouldn't try to recruit
younger people, as they often have a reasonable amount
of disposable income for a few years, until they get
married, take on a mortgage to buy a house and have
children. Even if they have to give up gliding for
a few years due to financial restraints, like born
again bikers they often come back to it in middle age.
As an instructor at a large club I have had several
students recently who fit into this category. At least
they know that gliding exists.

Good point.

To take a broader view: if a club wants to grow, it needs to make
pilots stay. To do that, it needs to make gliding more fun than mowing
the lawn, otherwise members will stop coming and mow the lawn instead
(as the GFA Dev Guide memorably states). There's a whole raft of
measures that can be done to achieve that - keep one glider for
bookable training so you don't always have to spend all day on a cold
field for 20 mins flying. Give structured post-solo support and
guidance, explaining what people need to do to progress and helping
and encouraging them every step of the way. Have a mid/high-
performance two-seater than can be used for XC training, even if it's
just a K21, and *use* it for that, not just circuits.

Once that is in place and working, then focus on marketing. Your
marketing efforts will be that much more successful as satisfied new
members having fun will tell their peers, and then they will come
gliding too.

Making the sport accessible to younger people is important (I
mentioned accessibility before). Offer under-25s substantially
discounted membership and flying fees so younger people can actually
afford the sport in the first place, but treat them as equals.


Dan

If I read modern demographics right, something like 30% never marry and
raise children. A few of those should make good candidates. It's very
important to keep in mind that we are talking about less than 1% of the
general population. In that light, generalizations always fail. We recruit
one-by-one. In our sport, mass marketing is an oxymoron.

However, I do agree that there is a 'critical mass' for attracting women and
youth. I'm sure being the only one present is uncomfortable

Bill Daniels


"Dan G" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 13, 10:20 pm, Papa3 wrote:
Anyone who spends any time on "marketing" will tell you that step 1 is
to carefully segment your market. Having done that, you then figure
out what appeals to each of your segments and market appropriately.
In our case, it's pretty clear that we can/should have many target
markets. What works for the under 25 set may not and probably will
not appeal to the 50 and over set.

You can "target" some products, but only if you can tailor the product
to the market. If you can't you start selling a perception, rather
than a reality, which leads to rapid turn-over in members (to keep the
discussion to gliding).

I'm 26, and I fly in a club that happens to have a lot of younger
members, and several women too, so have a good idea of what I'm
talking about, because I'm talking about my friends and myself. There
is a high turnover in the young members in the club - only a *very*
few young people will stick with gliding through their career
advancement and starting a family. Older members have no such
limitations, and typically stacks of cash they're having trouble
spending now their children have flown the nest.

The few young people who stick with gliding for any length of time
almost always receive a lot of money from their parents, one of whom
is usually already a glider pilot. There are not many people in that
category, so it's not worth "targetting" that "market".

(Rock climbing, which is "another extreme outdoor sport" and one that
has a "young" image, is something I used to to, and I reckon that cost
me about 10% of what gliding has for the same period of time. I've
managed to stick with gliding because our club is very cheap, but as a
result has poor facilities, and it's only through drive and
stubborness that I've managed to progress at all. Many of my peers
give up and leave.)

Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight
customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is
the challenge.

If gliding clubs are interested in expansion there are lots of things
they can do. If you want to know what, the GFA have literally written
the book:

http://www.gfa.org.au/development/guide.php

Download the draft guide from the third box on the right. (There's
also the SSA Growbook, of course, which has lots of good stuff in it
too.)

Clubs have two options: follow the advice of the GFA and SSA and grow,
ignore it and shrink. As the IGC president said earlier this year,
glider pilots will place all the obstacles in the world before
themselves before they'll actually do anything, so I don't expect to
see any clubs following that guide (someone prove me wrong).


Dan