RAAF F/A-18 Hornet Targetting Systems Upgrade

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
You don't have to equip every single one. Just have enough sets to meet
requirements.


Enough for each one that we have a pilot for?

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:00:50 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:


"John Cook" wrote in message
.. .

Come on Australia buy 30 typhoons to tide you over till the JSF
arrives in 2017 (ish)... and stop mucking about with the old stuff.



Typhoons are "old stuff". Almost as obsolete as their namesake.

At least as obsolete as the Ford XE Falcon, which is of the same vintage.

Do you by any chance have a tin foil hat?

Cheers

John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

Email Address :-
Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me
Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:01:22 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:


"Russell Waterson" wrote in message
. au...
I still thing typhoons would be more versitle than JSF. JSF has very
limited warload and does not have the developmental potentual of the
Typhoon


And the F-15, which we should have bought 20 years ago, beats both.

Probably not. A recent exercise against current East Block fighters
revealed two very disturbing issues. The F15 has an absolutely
enormous Radar Cross Section, several times an F18 or F16 RCS in fact,
it fact several times an F14, F16 or F18 RCS. The PW F100 also turns
out to have an equally ovesized IR signature. The GE F110 has a much
smaller IR signature. Translation is that a Mig 29, so SU-27 can see
the F15 long before the F15 sees either...

Both issues create serious questions about survivability against any
enemy with a competent defense Air system.

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:01:22 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:


"Russell Waterson" wrote in message
. au...
I still thing typhoons would be more versitle than JSF. JSF has very
limited warload and does not have the developmental potentual of the
Typhoon


And the F-15, which we should have bought 20 years ago, beats both.

Probably not. A recent exercise against current East Block fighters
revealed two very disturbing issues. The F15 has an absolutely
enormous Radar Cross Section, several times an F18 or F16 RCS in fact,
it fact several times an F14, F16 or F18 RCS. The PW F100 also turns
out to have an equally ovesized IR signature. The GE F110 has a much
smaller IR signature. Translation is that a Mig 29, so SU-27 can see
the F15 long before the F15 sees either...

ouch. by,by that option.


Both issues create serious questions about survivability against any
enemy with a competent defense Air system.

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:01:22 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:

And the F-15, which we should have bought 20 years ago, beats both.

Probably not. A recent exercise against current East Block fighters
revealed two very disturbing issues.

Ah, a military exercise.

All sorts of things happen in "exercises" - clanky leaky subs sink yank
carriers, hopolites with slignshots take out M1 tanks.....

Worked out how many F-15s were in the skies on 09/11 yet, Matt?

The F15 has an absolutely
enormous Radar Cross Section, several times an F18 or F16 RCS in fact,

Which is pretty much irrelevant in the modern world - all that matters is
stealth (F117, B2, F22, JSF), or no stealth.

it fact several times an F14, F16 or F18 RCS. The PW F100 also turns
out to have an equally ovesized IR signature.

Which didn't appear to be much of a disadvantage for the Israelis when
killing Syrians, the Saudis when killing Iraqis, the yanks when killing
Iraqis.....

The GE F110 has a much
smaller IR signature. Translation is that a Mig 29, so SU-27 can see
the F15 long before the F15 sees either...

Which might just happen if a pair of F-15s, with no supporting assets, went
up against a pair of SU-27s with no supporting assets.

And where might this happen, other than on a PC in some beard's bedroom?

"John Cook" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:00:50 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:

Typhoons are "old stuff". Almost as obsolete as their namesake.

At least as obsolete as the Ford XE Falcon, which is of the same vintage.

Do you by any chance have a tin foil hat?

No, tinfoil won't block the mind-control beams. That's just what the
guv'mint WANTS you to think.

I'd be careful when getting newspaper ink on your fingers, too. It has
haloucinegens that are designed to stop you from seeing the fnords.


BTW: The Typhoon is still eruotrash.

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:51 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:


"matt weber" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:01:22 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:

And the F-15, which we should have bought 20 years ago, beats both.

Probably not. A recent exercise against current East Block fighters
revealed two very disturbing issues.

Ah, a military exercise.

All sorts of things happen in "exercises" - clanky leaky subs sink yank
carriers, hopolites with slignshots take out M1 tanks.....

Worked out how many F-15s were in the skies on 09/11 yet, Matt?

The F15 has an absolutely
enormous Radar Cross Section, several times an F18 or F16 RCS in fact,

Which is pretty much irrelevant in the modern world - all that matters is
stealth (F117, B2, F22, JSF), or no stealth.
I disagree. The F16 radar can see another F16 with about a 75%
probability at 30nm. It can see an F15 with near 100% probability at
50 nm. The less time the other guy has to react, the better your
chances of long term survival. If you give the other guy days to
respond, as the Serbs demonstrated, even a Stealth Aircraft can be
brought down
100 also turns
out to have an equally ovesized IR signature.

Which didn't appear to be much of a disadvantage for the Israelis when
killing Syrians, the Saudis when killing Iraqis, the yanks when killing
Iraqis.....
I believe it was F4's that took out the Syrians over the Beka Valley,
but only AFTER the Israeli's had used UAV's to locate, and then
disable/destroy all of the Ground based Air Defense assets.

matt weber wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:51 +1000, "Scott Hillard"
wrote:


"matt weber" wrote in message

snip


The F15 has an absolutely
enormous Radar Cross Section, several times an F18 or F16 RCS in fact,

Which is pretty much irrelevant in the modern world - all that matters is
stealth (F117, B2, F22, JSF), or no stealth.
I disagree. The F16 radar can see another F16 with about a 75%
probability at 30nm. It can see an F15 with near 100% probability at
50 nm. The less time the other guy has to react, the better your
chances of long term survival. If you give the other guy days to
respond, as the Serbs demonstrated, even a Stealth Aircraft can be
brought down
100 also turns
out to have an equally ovesized IR signature.

Which didn't appear to be much of a disadvantage for the Israelis when
killing Syrians, the Saudis when killing Iraqis, the yanks when killing
Iraqis.....
I believe it was F4's that took out the Syrians over the Beka Valley,
but only AFTER the Israeli's had used UAV's to locate, and then
disable/destroy all of the Ground based Air Defense assets.

F-4s primarily took out the SAM sites, but it was F-15s and F-16s (and 1 F-4,
scoring the very last A-A kill by an IAF F-4) which shot down the Syrian Air
Force over Lebanon.

Guy

Which didn't appear to be much of a disadvantage for the Israelis when
killing Syrians, the Saudis when killing Iraqis, the yanks when killing
Iraqis.....

Genuine Q?

Did the Saudis ever actually shoot any Iraqi a/c down? Stories I've heard
are that they were "unsure" of how to actually use their weapon systems, and
had to be coached mid-combat by the USAF and RAF who were around them at the
time?

Was some political pressure for the RSAF to contribute to GWI, so despite
the fact that another a/c (RAF F3??) had the shot, the commander denied it?

May just be aircrew fokelore (oh and it wasn't an RAF pilot that told me
this - was while I was working with USN a few years ago)

Did the Saudis ever actually shoot any Iraqi a/c down?
Yes

Stories I've heard
are that they were "unsure" of how to actually use their weapon systems, and
had to be coached mid-combat by the USAF and RAF who were around them at the
time?

Probably

Was some political pressure for the RSAF to contribute to GWI, so despite
the fact that another a/c (RAF F3??) had the shot, the commander denied it?


yes, the RSAF plane was pretty much handed those kills, instead of a USAF or
RAF plane getting it.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India