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How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 21st 19, 01:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

Darryl- When posting on RAS with a message such as this, please use the "SARCASM FONT." Lots of readers just can't make the intellectual leap.
  #22  
Old November 21st 19, 06:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:31:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:
(...)

I refuse to install flarm, because I consider that company to be actively obstructing the adoption of adsb in gliders, by diverting money better spent on adsb, and by not allowing flarm traffic displays to accept non-flarm-format inputs. My glider has a Trig 22 and TN72 and a scout adsb-in sending data to the foreflight on my kneepad iphone.


I refuse to install FLARM because it doesn't make sense to me that I actually need BOTH the FLARM and a transponder/ADSB to see and be seen by others in the air. I know and understand the point about 'collision avoidance' vs. 'situational awareness'. I accept the fact that competition pilots flying in gaggles feel and are safer with the additional warnings from FLARM. ADDITIONAL to your eyes, because if you are flying that close to other aircraft(s) you should be looking out and not at the instruments.
All my clubs' gliders are equipped with FLARM, but I heard several skeptical opinions from fellow members. My recent experience was: beep-beep-beep... Where is he? Oh gosh, so close cutting in behind me at the same altitude. I'd rather be warned in advance about him approaching to be able to control his position all the time.
Also, very discouraging to me are the endless discussions about antennas, range issues and software updates.
So I'm looking forward to seeing a device integrating and combining the advantages of gliding-specific FLARMs with GA universal transponders/ADS-B.
  #23  
Old November 21st 19, 07:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 9:45:09 AM UTC-8, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:31:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:
(...)

I refuse to install flarm, because I consider that company to be actively obstructing the adoption of adsb in gliders, by diverting money better spent on adsb, and by not allowing flarm traffic displays to accept non-flarm-format inputs. My glider has a Trig 22 and TN72 and a scout adsb-in sending data to the foreflight on my kneepad iphone.


I refuse to install FLARM because it doesn't make sense to me that I actually need BOTH the FLARM and a transponder/ADSB to see and be seen by others in the air. I know and understand the point about 'collision avoidance' vs. 'situational awareness'. I accept the fact that competition pilots flying in gaggles feel and are safer with the additional warnings from FLARM. ADDITIONAL to your eyes, because if you are flying that close to other aircraft(s) you should be looking out and not at the instruments.
All my clubs' gliders are equipped with FLARM, but I heard several skeptical opinions from fellow members. My recent experience was: beep-beep-beep.... Where is he? Oh gosh, so close cutting in behind me at the same altitude.. I'd rather be warned in advance about him approaching to be able to control his position all the time.
Also, very discouraging to me are the endless discussions about antennas, range issues and software updates.


So I'm looking forward to seeing a device integrating and combining the advantages of gliding-specific FLARMs with GA universal transponders/ADS-B.


^^ That's just not going to happen. And you can get a flavor for why from other concurrent threads here.



  #24  
Old November 21st 19, 08:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

Tom BravoMike wrote on 11/21/2019 9:45 AM:
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:31:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:
(...)

I refuse to install flarm, because I consider that company to be actively
obstructing the adoption of adsb in gliders, by diverting money better spent
on adsb, and by not allowing flarm traffic displays to accept
non-flarm-format inputs. My glider has a Trig 22 and TN72 and a scout
adsb-in sending data to the foreflight on my kneepad iphone.


I refuse to install FLARM because it doesn't make sense to me that I actually
need BOTH the FLARM and a transponder/ADSB to see and be seen by others in the
air. I know and understand the point about 'collision avoidance' vs.
'situational awareness'. I accept the fact that competition pilots flying in
gaggles feel and are safer with the additional warnings from FLARM. ADDITIONAL
to your eyes, because if you are flying that close to other aircraft(s) you
should be looking out and not at the instruments. All my clubs' gliders are
equipped with FLARM, but I heard several skeptical opinions from fellow
members. My recent experience was: beep-beep-beep... Where is he? Oh gosh, so
close cutting in behind me at the same altitude. I'd rather be warned in
advance about him approaching to be able to control his position all the time.
Also, very discouraging to me are the endless discussions about antennas,
range issues and software updates. So I'm looking forward to seeing a device
integrating and combining the advantages of gliding-specific FLARMs with GA
universal transponders/ADS-B.

Your beep-beep-beep... analysis missed half of what Flarm does for you: the OTHER
glider was also alerted to the potential conflict. And before the beep beep beep,
Flarm will alert you to the other glider coming into range, and you can track it's
progress on the screen well before the collision warning.

I have a glider with a Mode C transponder and Flarm: the transponder alerts most
airplanes to my presence; the FLARM alerts most gliders to my presence; Flarm
shows me the gliders and airplanes with transponders. To add ADS-B would cost me
about $3000 (Mode S transponder + TN72), and would only slightly increase the
number of airplanes that sense me, and would not change the number of airplanes
and gliders I can sense.

I do have a full ADS-B system (Dynon Skyview) in my Phoenix touring motorglider,
and it's great system for detecting airplanes, but not gliders. When I've flown it
at glider camps or contests, I also use a portable Flarm.

Most pilots that have Flarm installed do not engage in "endless discussions about
antennas, range issues and software updates" - we just turn it on and use it. Some
pilot will have problems, but once the installation is done correctly, it's just
the yearly updates that confuse some pilots. Some are also confused by updating
their flight computer or vario software and the databases, but they get some help
with those, too, and then go fly for another year.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #25  
Old November 21st 19, 09:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

I agree completely with Eric, I would not trade the PowerFlarm for ADSB in/out for my 27. Its absoulutly necessary IMHO for contest flying. I also fly a 170B with Skybeacon adsb out and stratus 2 in on a Ipad and foreflight and around busy class D airspace. Its very useful but not as good at alerts as the PowerFlarm is.

CH ASW27/C170B
  #26  
Old November 22nd 19, 06:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Thomas Van de Velde
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

Here's how: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KuVwn8tV9iLHkPgx7
  #27  
Old November 22nd 19, 02:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 11:15:42 PM UTC-6, Thomas Van de Velde wrote:
Here's how: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KuVwn8tV9iLHkPgx7


Interesting, a TN70 and no squat switch.
It the plane experimental or standard?
  #28  
Old November 22nd 19, 06:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

You can set up the system to use GPS ground speed as your air/ground
determinant.Â* For most flights that would be just fine, but not so with
wave flights when ground speed can decrease to the point where you'd be
reporting on ground while still at altitude.Â* Since I live in an area
where wave flights are not infrequent, I elected to install a pneumatic
switch for that purpose.

On 11/22/2019 6:07 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 11:15:42 PM UTC-6, Thomas Van de Velde wrote:
Here's how:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KuVwn8tV9iLHkPgx7
Interesting, a TN70 and no squat switch.
It the plane experimental or standard?


--
Dan, 5J
  #29  
Old November 22nd 19, 07:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

FLARM isn't absolutely necessary for contest flying but it sure is safer. I tend to roll my eyes at the endless discussions here about the latest technology in soaring (despite--or, rather, because of--having worked in IT for 20 years). But after I borrowed a portable FLARM for the Nationals in 2015, I arranged to buy the loaner.

Yeah, everyone should keep their eyes out of the cockpit at all times. But we're human. We make mistakes. Vision is imperfect. We can't see behind us. FLARM isn't perfect, either, but it's a lot better than the alternatives as far as I can tell.

Much of the chatter here is about increasing the effective range because, contrary to early and earnest assurances, FLARM IS of tactical value. Stealth mode retains nearly all of the safety benefits and negates most of the tactical value but that discussion is dead. In the meantime, I'm always nervous when I learn that one or more pilots at a contest don't have FLARM. In my experience over the past 50+ years, the majority (though certainly not all) of mid-air collision risks at contests and busy gliderports are other gliders.

Holding out against FLARM reminds me of that phrase, "the perfect is the enemy of the good." You can wait for the perfect anti-collision device for gliders. In the meantime, FLARM is pretty good, doesn't require expensive regulatory compliance, doesn't need a bigger battery, and costs less. I voted with my wallet.

Chip Bearden
JB
  #30  
Old November 22nd 19, 08:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

You can set up the system...

There you go, answering a sensible what it takes to make it work question.
I was asking why use that combination to make it legal?
(My head hurts thinking sensible and ADSB at the same time.)

If it's experimental, why use a TN70 instead of a TN72.
If it's standard, I thought the STC wanted the airspeed switch.
 




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