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#32
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:56:51 GMT, Woody Beal
wrote: On 12/20/04 16:38, in article , "Ed Rasimus" wrote: BFM is always relevant to a greater or lesser degree, but if you want to talk "relative performance" you've got to throw in a lot of stuff--T/W, rate/radius, endurance, range, weapons available and don't forget the ROE. When you get to the "teen fighters" there isn't a whole lot of difference in the basic numbers. Vipers, Eagles, Toms and Bugs all do a pretty good job and on any given day, one or the other will reign supreme. Pride in your system is good, but there aren't many absolutes in discussion of "The best BFM platform in the US inventory". Ed, You're right about absolutes to a point, but in the teen series fighters, the F/A-18 has better high AOA ability. Its ability to point the nose when slow and to force the defender to acknowledge its presence makes it slightly superior. Add the new "departure resistant" PROM 10.7 FCC software, and you've got a better jet. Which kind of brings us full circle, doesn't it. High AOA ability is always impressive, but it isn't good tactics to get to the place where you have to use it. The best BFM is flown fast--ideally around your corner velocity. If you find yourself in the regime of dependence upon "departure resistant" software, you've already made some mistakes. And that causes us to return to the basic truism that no one intentionally fights 1-v-1 WVR for real. I'd like to believe I'm a better pilot that the Viper drivers I've got video of, but I'm really not. I have a jet that will just do things that their airplanes won't. At the risk of getting batted around by John again, I'll say it: With the same skill-level pilots, the closest thing to the Hornet's BFM ability is the F-16 big mouth. It's not pride in the weapons system. It's matter of record. And, I'm sure you recall exposure to aggressors--it isn't much different whether you were dealing with USAF or USN, but typically they took airplanes with significantly inferior numbers and used them to soundly thrash us until we learned the basics of our own airplanes. Vipers beat Eagles which beat Toms which get beaten by Hornets, which in turn can get beaten by Vipers occasionally. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" www.thunderchief.org |
#33
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At the risk of getting batted around by John again, I'll say it: With the
same skill-level pilots, the closest thing to the Hornet's BFM ability is the F-16 big mouth. It's not pride in the weapons system. It's matter of record. Any guy so willing to reverse in front of me is fair game. Many Turkey drivers would argue your concept of "matter of record." R / John |
#34
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BFM training still goes on -- the Hornet is the best BFM platform in the US inventory (pre-F22, pre-AIM-9X etc). Properly used, its ability to "point" negates the Ps advantage resident in some other jets, including the B/D Tomcats. High alpha, low energy state negates that ability to point everywhere ... I'm thinking primarily in the vertical. OTOH, I will agree that the Hornet is the best damn level turning jet in the inventory. So if you're a two-dimensional kinda guy .... R / John |
#35
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#36
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"Woody Beal" wrote in message ... On 12/20/04 17:23, in article , "John Carrier" wrote: At the risk of getting batted around by John again, I'll say it: With the same skill-level pilots, the closest thing to the Hornet's BFM ability is the F-16 big mouth. It's not pride in the weapons system. It's matter of record. Any guy so willing to reverse in front of me is fair game. Many Turkey drivers would argue your concept of "matter of record." R / John John, At the risk of sounding pompous--so I say this with the most hesitation and humbleness--my "matter of record" is personal experience against all of these platforms. If you think that all Hornet drivers automatically drop anchor, then I've given you the wrong impression. Pointing and shooting is what happens when both fighters get in the phone booth--giving the Hornet it's real advantage. Remember the Super Fox? The Hornet with its new FCC software is better. --Woody That pretty much sums it up (although IME the so-called super fox was not so super when it was just man y mano). We're not talking about shooting what flys out in front of you in a group gaggle at Fallon, Nellis, Miramar, Yuma or Holloman. |
#37
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That pretty much sums it up (although IME the so-called super fox was not
so super when it was just man y mano). Exactly where it excelled ... humbling the Gen 4 jets in 1v1. R / John |
#38
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At the risk of sounding pompous--so I say this with the most hesitation
and humbleness--my "matter of record" is personal experience against all of these platforms. Risk noted. Anyone who's strapped on a fighter will know EXACTLY where you're coming from. If you think that all Hornet drivers automatically drop anchor, then I've given you the wrong impression. Pointing and shooting is what happens when both fighters get in the phone booth--giving the Hornet it's real advantage. Remember the Super Fox? The Hornet with its new FCC software is better. Never said that. You implied an affinity for such tactics. My Love to Erin, have a joyful Christmas John |
#39
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At the risk of getting batted around by John again, I'll say it: With the
same skill-level pilots, the closest thing to the Hornet's BFM ability is the F-16 big mouth. Anyone done some moves against the Raptor yet? _____________ José Herculano |
#40
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I talked to an engineer from the Raptor program (anyone see the rolling
AIM-9 launch videos? He set those shots up), and he said that they'd thrown several different types up against it and it was eating everyone alive. Didn't really elucidate much, but we had been talking agility so you can infer what you wish. |
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