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#11
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 04:08:04 GMT, "Travis Marlatte"
wrote: So, for those of you with plug in heaters, how does that work out? I presume that at your home airport, you are parked in your own unheated hangar or near an outlet on the ramp. What about visiting other airports? Do you asked to be parked near an outlet? Do they stretch a cord across the ramp for you? Do they plug it into a service truck for a couple of hours before start? ------------------------------- Travis If I cannot plug in, I obtain pre-heat in the usual manner -- i.e. the FBO either has a gas fired unit; heated hangar or I make other arrangements. Some folk will carry small generators; others will carry small "Red Dragons". Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#12
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Those little Honda 1000's at 29# would be the cats pajamas.
If you could keep it from growing legs.... Mike Z "Viperdoc" wrote in message ... Is it worth lugging long extension cords to plug in the Tanis heaters for my Baron if it's going to sit outside at 12 degrees for two to three hours after a flight? I have cowl plugs which may help a little, but is it really a problem? The oil will be well circulated, and the battery is in good shape to crank the engines. Also, the POH says to keep the cowl flaps open during taxi and take off, but when it's so cold outside does this still make sense? As long as the CHTs remain within a reasonable range what difference should it make? Thanks from Wisconsin, where its 2 degrees and clear. |
#13
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I started my engines this morning at -4 F... No preheat never do
Wow. Pretty cavalier attitude with two engines worth close to $20K apiece. I've found that for periods of four hours or less, the engine will stay pretty warm with our dark blue cowl cover on -- especially in a bright sun. For longer periods, plugging in is essential. A couple of weeks ago, while staying at Lake Lawn Lodge (in Lake Delevan, WI) the oil temperature was 34 degrees at start-up -- even after being plugged in overnight, WITH the cowl cover on! The outside temperature was -10, and the wind was howling. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#14
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Well, there's preheats and there's preheats...
A quick preheat with a red dragon makes you feel warm all over (so does urinary incontinence while wearing a dark wool suit) but doesn't do much of anything except make the exterior sheet metal, fins, etc., temporarily warm... The oil is still at ambient in the pan, and definitely ambient upon entering the oil pump... And that great steel slab of rotating oil passages they call a crank is still at -4 degrees, or whatever, to the oil trying to flow through it - chilling the 'supposedly' warm oil quite nicely and instantly... notice that the crank has two or more 'ambient temperature equalizing heat sinks' firmly attached...... Of course, you feel all warm and secure - if not actually doing a lot for the engine - so I suppose that's worth something... Same deal for an oil pan heater... You have a puddle of relatively warm oil (often with a chilled center if it is the typical preheat) that will assume crank/prop and case temperatures immediately upon flowing into the passages... If you read the aggregate wisdom of the alaskan/arctic flyers, you will see that a preheat includes a solid hour - and usually more - of a red dragon with the pedal to the metal, cowl blankets and prop booties, pouring the heated oil (from a stove) into the engine and immediately starting... Now the Reif, et. al., systems of cylinder clamps and pan pads can be helpful IF they are on for a number of hours with an good, metallized, insulated, blanket tightly wrapped, booties on the prop and hub, and no air blowing up the exhaust, to allow the heat to soak all the way to the center of the crank... Less effort than that and you are kidding yourself... denny "Dale" wrote in message "Dennis O'Connor" wrote: I started my engines this morning at -4 F... No preheat never do That's the way this airplane has been treated ever since semisynthetic, multiviscosity, oils came out.... Engines go to TBO routinely... Wow. To each his own. I would never start at those temps without preheat, and I also used 15W50. I've also tried to pour it when it's cold. G If it works for you, great. |
#15
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"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message ... Well, there's preheats and there's preheats... A quick preheat with a red dragon makes you feel warm all over (so does urinary incontinence while wearing a dark wool suit) but doesn't do much of anything except make the exterior sheet metal, fins, etc., temporarily warm... The oil is still at ambient in the pan, and definitely ambient upon entering the oil pump... And that great steel slab of rotating oil passages they call a crank is still at -4 degrees, or whatever, to the oil trying to flow through it - chilling the 'supposedly' warm oil quite nicely and instantly... notice that the crank has two or more 'ambient temperature equalizing heat sinks' firmly attached...... Of course, you feel all warm and secure - if not actually doing a lot for the engine - so I suppose that's worth something... Same deal for an oil pan heater... You have a puddle of relatively warm oil (often with a chilled center if it is the typical preheat) that will assume crank/prop and case temperatures immediately upon flowing into the passages... If you read the aggregate wisdom of the alaskan/arctic flyers, you will see that a preheat includes a solid hour - and usually more - of a red dragon with the pedal to the metal, cowl blankets and prop booties, pouring the heated oil (from a stove) into the engine and immediately starting... Now the Reif, et. al., systems of cylinder clamps and pan pads can be helpful IF they are on for a number of hours with an good, metallized, insulated, blanket tightly wrapped, booties on the prop and hub, and no air blowing up the exhaust, to allow the heat to soak all the way to the center of the crank... Less effort than that and you are kidding yourself... denny How come the engine in my car with 190,000 miles is running fine with no signs of undue wear with nary a single preheat. It is often started at temps well below 0 F. Aluminium block, steel crank, steel cylinder liners and aluminium pistons same as the ole Continental. "Dale" wrote in message "Dennis O'Connor" wrote: I started my engines this morning at -4 F... No preheat never do That's the way this airplane has been treated ever since semisynthetic, multiviscosity, oils came out.... Engines go to TBO routinely... Wow. To each his own. I would never start at those temps without preheat, and I also used 15W50. I've also tried to pour it when it's cold. G If it works for you, great. |
#16
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Dave Stadt wrote: How come the engine in my car with 190,000 miles is running fine with no signs of undue wear with nary a single preheat. Aircraft engines are usually designed to turn at about 2700 rpm max. Auto engines are designed to turn about 5000 to 6000 rpm max. Since the valves are closing much more rapidly on an auto engine, the springs must be made much stiffer. Since these stiffer springs slam the valve head against its seat with much more force, the valves are made much thicker to take the punsihment. In short, the entire valve train of an aircraft engine is much more delicately built than that of an auto engine. Skip the preheat, and you run a serious risk of snapping a valve. George Patterson A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. |
#17
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In article , "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote: Well, there's preheats and there's preheats... A quick preheat with a red dragon makes you feel warm all over (so does urinary incontinence while wearing a dark wool suit) but doesn't do much of anything except make the exterior sheet metal, fins, etc., temporarily warm... The oil is still at ambient in the pan, and definitely ambient upon entering the oil pump... And that great steel slab of rotating oil passages they call a crank is still at -4 degrees, or whatever, to the oil trying to flow through it - chilling the 'supposedly' warm oil quite nicely and instantly... notice that the crank has two or more 'ambient temperature equalizing heat sinks' firmly attached...... Of course, you feel all warm and secure - if not actually doing a lot for the engine - so I suppose that's worth something... well, I've done the no-preheat thing on a 30 degree day and the prop didn't spin all that fast (barely started). With a preheat on a 20 degree day the prop spins a lot faster. Preheating does something for my engine. -- Bob Noel |
#18
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Well,,,desperate men do desperate things.
Stay at a motel near the airport and go out and start your plane and run it for 1/2 hour every 4 hours. Bring the walkman. |
#19
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Dave Stadt wrote:
: How come the engine in my car with 190,000 miles is running fine with no : signs of undue wear with nary a single preheat. It is often started at : temps well below 0 F. Aluminium block, steel crank, steel cylinder liners : and aluminium pistons same as the ole Continental. Two words: Liquid cooling. Everything about the aircraft engine is catered to running at ridiculously high temperatures during normal operation. The oil is very thick so it still lubricates at high temperatures and carries heat away from the cylinders. The cylinders themselves have choke (they're slightly smaller bore at the top), with the thought being they'll expand to be straight when they heat up during normal operation. Those two things are the primary reasons.... lack of oil and scuffing of cylinders. -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#20
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wrote in message
... The oil is very thick Is there any difference in viscocity between a 15/50 aero oil and a 15/50 car oil? Paul |
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