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#21
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Mayday in Utah
What I want to know is, how much are they going to charge the
motorglider pilot for the Global Hawk search and rescue team? On Jun 11, 9:22*pm, wrote: Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. *The team was flying a new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK Center made the request. *Center reported a Mayday from a "powered glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the search and rescue. *Fortunately good news followed that the motorglider had safely landed. You all be careful out there. *We don't fly Hawks every day. *It is better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT. Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far, Jim Payne |
#22
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Mayday in Utah
Regarding the Mayday, this is encouraged by the FAA if the pilot is
concerned about his safety - whether founded or unfounded. They are there to help and can decide how urgent the matter is. Perhaps the pilot was simply a low time pilot or perhaps no one knew he was flying in that area. Perhaps he did something bonehead, but that can be discussed later. Remember, the FAA is there to help and prevent accidents. Although soaring pilots rarely get lost these days, pilots were encouraged to call in whenever they got disoriented and still are when they are in a position of low visibility. I think the terminology is less important than letting the FSS or other facility the pilot needs help. Regarding SAR, I am a member of SAR and have been involved in a number of searches. Once a beacon is turned on, we are going to try to find the source. If it turns off, we still are going to look for the cause and assume the battery failed. So, do not turn it on unless you want to be found. If you know you are gong to crash, that is a good reason to turn the ELT on. ELTs do not assure immediate location, which is why they have moved to a higher frequency. Most of the ELTs we track down are on perfectly good airplanes, with no accident. Could be a hard landing or defective workmanship. The satellites report by traingulation of passing satellites and sometimes the report given to us is far away from where found. The most difficult case is when an instructor throws his bag into the back and activates the ELT, then keeps flying for another hour. One tracker was right under the airplane and reported that the signal strength was the same in every direction. Later, he learned he had been under the missing airplane. And, remember that motorgliders are often not 50/1 ships. Some are as low as 23/1. Colin |
#23
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Mayday in Utah
Cliff Hilty wrote:
I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about 60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned about communications on the ground. Sounds like a good reason to have SPOT along when flying in the Great Basin When it got dark I could not find a single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around. Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next day with minimal effort....but thats another story |
#24
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Mayday in Utah
I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known position so they know which transmitter to reply with)" Errr, Flight Service (often on 122.2 - both transmit/receive)? Flight Watch (122.0 - only, AFAIK) is for weather advisories. Tony |
#25
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Mayday in Utah
"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message ... On Jun 12, 3:28 pm, Cliff Hilty wrote: I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes well deactivating itafter landing? I think those folks ought to expect to be billed for any SAR service expense incurred on their behalf as a result of non-emergency activation. I have no problem donating time and resources to searching for bretheren in actual peril, or even those who think they're in peril, because I know that some day that might be me out there. However, I think it'd be pretty seriously demotivating to get regularly called out and then stood down because of an alert sent up by someone who thought that there was the possibility that they might soon be in peril, maybe. Demotivating events like that take their toll on SAR groups, making it harder to attract and retain qualified and dedicated volunteers. Thanks, Bob K. OK, that's useful information, Bob. What about using a rented sat-phone to call in an apology to the SAR folks after turning the PLB off. Is there any central number to call? Bill D |
#26
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Mayday in Utah
At 00:27 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:
And, remember that motorgliders are often not 50/1 ships. Some are as low as 23/1. That doesn't mean that an off-field landing in a 23/1 glider is by its very nature an emergency. I've done it. More than once. So has anybody who flies cross-country in a 1-26. Jim Beckman |
#27
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Mayday in Utah
Although we can discuss whether the incident should have been an emergency,
the point was that the pilot felt it prudent to use the radio to get assistance. I flew helicopters with 2/1 glide ratio and we practiced autorotations regularly, and I always flew over terrain that an engine out would not be an emergency. In the midwest, there is probably always a spot to land - but in rugged terrain, there are sometimes few places to land a ship - no matter what. I knew a fellow - Cal Butler - who made an emergency landing with an old torpedo plane that he was ferrying across the Cascades (engine failure) on lava beds. He no doubt did not call Mayday, but he was a different breed. He walked away, but the aircraft was in a little ball. Even if the radio communication and known backup eased the pilot's mind, to allow him to fly the sailplane, that woud be sufficient reason to justify the call. I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer it the other way around. Colin Lamb |
#28
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Mayday in Utah
And, I forgot to mention that just because the MG has the same glide ratio
as the 1/26 does not mean that it will land in the same space. The MG has more mass and some have a stall speed at about 50, which is different that a 1/26. We can talk about whether or not the pilot was prepared, but that might be a different question. We do not know all the facts. Maybe the pilot was dehydrated. Maybe he was suffering from hypoxia. The good news is that he is down and safe, and he did a lot more right than he did wrong. Colin Lamb |
#29
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Mayday in Utah
On Jun 12, 12:22 am, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the motorglider had safely landed. You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT. Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far, Jim Payne JP - Now that we have been subjected to the customary RAS Rampant Aviation Speculation Can you tell us what actually transpired (why he called MayDay) ? Thanks ! Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" |
#30
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Mayday in Utah
At 13:38 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:
I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer it the other way around. I'm afraid I don't understand this. Would the crash have been any less severe if the pilot you scraped off had called for help beforehand? The point here seems to be that the pilot's call for assistance wasn't based on the lack of a place to land (obviously such a place was handy) but on his lack of engine power. Given the positive outcome it's sort of funny, and it gives us purists a chance to snicker at the powerglider brigade. How much of our snickering is rooted in envy is left as an exercise for the student. Jim Beckman |
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