If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Weather and ground effect
I was wondering if someone can shed some light on a phenomon I keep
experiencing. I took a Mooney up to warm it up prior to an oil change. There was 70 degree crosswind at 20 gusting 28. Needless to say, there was moderate turbulance below 8K. As expected, I got beat up pretty good just briefly flying out of the pattern to do a full systems check. The plane was all over the place during the approach. I could keep the plane in an imaginary box but inside that box, I was at the mercy of the elements. Once I got the plane safely into ground effect, everything smooths out for the touchdown and rollout. This is not the first time I have experienced this. Nearly everytime where there is turbulance and gusting winds, it seems that if I can safely make it into ground effect, the turbulance and gusts either go away or have little effect. It makes for beautiful landings after an uncomfortable approach. Why is this? Thanks in advance, Kevin Chandler |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
In a previous article, "Kevin Chandler" said:
go away or have little effect. It makes for beautiful landings after an uncomfortable approach. Why is this? What you're calling "ground effect" is actually the zone where the wind is in the "boundary layer". Right at the bottom, turbulent air will hit the gound and "stick", then each successive "layer" of air above it will slow down a bit relative to the one below it, but also stop moving across the layers. So near the ground, you get lower wind speeds but also more laminar flow. That's kind of a layman's summary of the science behind it. Pedants will now point out every little simplification I made as an error. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
What you're calling "ground effect" is actually the zone where the wind is in the "boundary layer". Right at the bottom, turbulent air will hit the gound and "stick", then each successive "layer" of air above it will slow down a bit relative to the one below it, but also stop moving across the layers. So near the ground, you get lower wind speeds but also more laminar flow. That 'boundary layer' effect which includes 'wind gradient' is also what allows one to land in seemingly impossible xwinds. I've now twice experienced x-winds too high to maintain a proper slip (wing low, fuselage aligned) during final but once within a wingspan or so of the ground, the xwind is reduced just enough to let me 'assume the position'. Are there any other effects that might be at work here. Would flying in 'ground effect' somehow smooth out the bumps? Would this effect be significantly different in Maule versus a Mooney because of wing location? (I wrestle with my Maule in the flare but found once the Mooney (201) was in ground effect, a smooth landing was assured.) Just thinking out loud here. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Kevin Chandler" wrote in message ...
I was wondering if someone can shed some light on a phenomon I keep experiencing. I took a Mooney up to warm it up prior to an oil change. There was 70 degree crosswind at 20 gusting 28. Needless to say, there was moderate turbulance below 8K. As expected, I got beat up pretty good just briefly flying out of the pattern to do a full systems check. The plane was all over the place during the approach. I could keep the plane in an imaginary box but inside that box, I was at the mercy of the elements. Once I got the plane safely into ground effect, everything smooths out for the touchdown and rollout. This is not the first time I have experienced this. Nearly everytime where there is turbulance and gusting winds, it seems that if I can safely make it into ground effect, the turbulance and gusts either go away or have little effect. It makes for beautiful landings after an uncomfortable approach. Why is this? Thanks in advance, Kevin Chandler I have noticed this too, and IMHO, the most dominant effect is the diminished wind as you descend below the treeline. An 8-knot gust factor is not much to worry about. However, if the surface wind is 20G28, the winds at 500' was probably like 30G50 which is enough to kick you around. As you descend, you will not only notice a drop in gust, but also a drop in total wind, which will cause a drop in airspeed and an increased sink rate. This is something to be cautious about on windy days at airports that are surrounded by tall trees. I don't believe that the boundary layer has a significant effect here, as it is too thin (compared to the aircraft size) to be noticeable. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"Maule Driver" wrote in
news "Paul Tomblin" wrote in message What you're calling "ground effect" is actually the zone where the wind is in the "boundary layer". Right at the bottom, turbulent air will hit the gound and "stick", then each successive "layer" of air above it will slow down a bit relative to the one below it, but also stop moving across the layers. So near the ground, you get lower wind speeds but also more laminar flow. That 'boundary layer' effect which includes 'wind gradient' is also what allows one to land in seemingly impossible xwinds. I've now twice experienced x-winds too high to maintain a proper slip (wing low, fuselage aligned) during final but once within a wingspan or so of the ground, the xwind is reduced just enough to let me 'assume the position'. Which is one of the reasons I teach transitioning to the slip in the flare rather than before. At 200agl you may not have enough rudder to maintain runway alignment, but it may be just fine once you get down into the flare. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message . 158... "Maule Driver" wrote in news "Paul Tomblin" wrote in message What you're calling "ground effect" is actually the zone where the wind is in the "boundary layer". Right at the bottom, turbulent air will hit the gound and "stick", then each successive "layer" of air above it will slow down a bit relative to the one below it, but also stop moving across the layers. So near the ground, you get lower wind speeds but also more laminar flow. That 'boundary layer' effect which includes 'wind gradient' is also what allows one to land in seemingly impossible xwinds. I've now twice experienced x-winds too high to maintain a proper slip (wing low, fuselage aligned) during final but once within a wingspan or so of the ground, the xwind is reduced just enough to let me 'assume the position'. Which is one of the reasons I teach transitioning to the slip in the flare rather than before. At 200agl you may not have enough rudder to maintain runway alignment, but it may be just fine once you get down into the flare. Boundary layers are tiny. Close to the ground the vertical component of air movement is constrained. Maintain coordinated flight until the flare; then slip. Keep the momentum vector nailed down the centerline. That keeps you going straight in the transition to slip in the flare. Use the correct airspeed for your craft; no more, no less. Blue skies. H. CP AS&MEL IA |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... In a previous article, "Kevin Chandler" said: go away or have little effect. It makes for beautiful landings after an uncomfortable approach. Why is this? What you're calling "ground effect" is actually the zone where the wind is in the "boundary layer". Right at the bottom, turbulent air will hit the gound and "stick", then each successive "layer" of air above it will slow down a bit relative to the one below it, but also stop moving across the layers. So near the ground, you get lower wind speeds but also more laminar flow. That's kind of a layman's summary of the science behind it. Pedants will now point out every little simplification I made as an error. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes. Thanks Paul, All these years I just assumed it was simply surface friction. Your summary makes better sense. If there were no other forces present,(another assumption) surface friction would only make matters worse? MG |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
I don't believe that the boundary layer has a significant effect
here, as it is too thin (compared to the aircraft size) to be noticeable. According to "Meteorology for Scientists and Engineers", by Roland B. Stull, the boundary layer is about 2 km in height. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Would flying in 'ground effect' somehow smooth out the bumps?
If anything, it would make it worse. There is a "lift slope curve" associated with each aircraft which determines how much lift comes from a particular increase in AOA. When the curve is shallow, then a large increase in AOA only produces a small increase in lift. This is associated with low aspect ratio wings, such as a delta wing. In ground effect, for any aircraft, the lift slope gets steeper. Therefore, a small increase in AOA, such as produced by a gust will produce a larger increment in lift, i.e., a bigger bump. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Did the Germans have the Norden bombsight? | Cub Driver | Military Aviation | 106 | May 12th 04 07:18 AM |
Sun N Fun Redux | Jay Honeck | Piloting | 26 | April 24th 04 01:44 PM |
making the transition from renter to owner part 2 (long) | Journeyman | Piloting | 2 | April 15th 04 10:19 PM |
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons | Curtl33 | General Aviation | 7 | January 9th 04 11:35 PM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |