Using other freqs to communicate between planes or ground?

I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to).

"Gary G" wrote in message
...
I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to
communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or
CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or
something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to)

Hi Gary,

Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL
Still nowhere to go but up!

"Gary G" wrote in message
...
Is that legal?

No. The FCC rules call out specific frequencies for use in specific
situations, including air-to-air, air-to-ground, radio testing, etc. You
are not permitted to use, for example, a tower frequency that you believe to
be unused in the area for some other purpose.

Is it ok?

Define "ok". Many pilots use 123.45 as a "junk" frequency for the purposes
you mention, but it's not a permitted frequency. It's unlikely you'll
interfere with anyone else using that frequency, and it's unlikely you'll
ever get caught. But don't you think it would be better to stick to an
approved frequency?

(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to).

I have no idea what that has to do with it.

Pete

"Jay Beckman" wrote:

Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency to converse with
each other. It's intrusive to us because our frequency is supposed to be
for communication between our FBO and OUR pilots (students, renters,
etc.) to make our operations smoother; the unwitting pilots find it
annoying when we tell them they're on our FBO frequency, as if WE are
interrupting THEIR conversation! I don't know if they're in violation of
any regs by using our frequency to communicate, but my guess is that it
doesn't happen frequently enough to pursue it.

Just to add that transmissions from an aircraft can travel much
further than ground transmissions. So just because you never hear
anything on a particular freq does not mean that you will not cause
interference on it. Airport receivers have quite good reception and
certain atmospheric conditions can boost the propagation of radio
signals by a surprising amount. Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter
has mentioned, 123.45 is considered to be a common chat channel.

The AIM and FCC list 122.750 MHz and 122.850 MHz for air to air (and
private airports not open to the public).

Gary G wrote:
I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to).

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:5Oyfd.18870$SW3.479@fed1read01...
Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and
122.7 so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when
returning from the practice area or from cross countrys.

Not sure what you mean by "the FBO squeezes 122.775 in". 122.775 is a
frequency specifically assigned by the FCC to "Aircraft (Air carrier and
Private)" and to "Aviation support". That is, it's a frequency reserved for
communication between planes and FBOs (among other things), and would have
been granted to the FBO for that purpose (another FBO at the same airport
would have to use a different frequency).

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The regulations don't say anything about 122.85 being usable as an
air-to-air frequency. Who told you that 122.85 is approved for use as the
"practice area" frequency? Is that published somewhere?

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

It is definitely a good thing to know the frequencies for FBOs.

Pete

"gerrcoin" wrote in message
...
[...] Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter has mentioned, 123.45 is
considered to be a common chat channel.

However, as I also mentioned, it's not an approved channel. It's reserved
for ground test stations.

If you're going to chat on the radio in the air to other stations in the
air, you should do so on 122.75, which is the frequency specifically set
aside for air-to-air communication.

I would also use 122.75 for student-to-instructor communications, when the
instructor is on the ground with a hand-held for example, even though that's
patently illegal (it's not an air-to-ground frequency, and the handheld is
not a legal station for the purpose of transmitting).

Pete

"Gary G"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to communicate
between planes or
-to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?

Absolutely not, unless the "unused" frequency is assigned by license to either
you or the ground station. There is only one air to air frequency for airPLANES
(122.75) and another one for rotorwing aircraft (123.025). (Ref 47CFR87 sub F)



-Is that legal?

Again, illegal as hell unless one of you has applied for and been granted the
FCC (not FAA) license for the frequency for the purpose intended in 14CFR87.

Jim


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Jay Beckman"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
-so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
-from the practice area or from cross countrys.

Illegal as hell UNLESS your FBO has applied for and been granted a license on
that frequency (47CFR87 sub K). Most FBOs don't want to spend the extra $50 on
a license and hope against hope the little men in the antenna van don't pop them
$10K a day for the privilege.


-
-The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
-you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

122.85 is also authorized under subparts H and K, but only upon a showing of
need and the requisite application and fees.

So the old question goes, "Who is it going to hurt, and who is going to catch
me?" The same folks who will be hurt and who will catch you if you don't
maintain currency and carry passengers, fly without a flight review, with an
expired medical, and all that good stuff.

Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com