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#51
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04... I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~) Also, I was not defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I was not characterizing his answer to a question, The author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors had been brought to this country so he never had to live in Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery. Oddly, there have been several times more immigrants in the past 50 years from Africa than were brought as slaves in the early 19th century. I'm sure that if I had the money and time to waste, I could get a transcript or even the tape of the interview. But I will just drop the issue since it isn't worth my time to argue about what you think. I'll leave that last word alone as his typical hysterics and symantics belie the word "think" (I can just imagine him ripping the arms off his chair). |
#52
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message newswCgg.26386$ZW3.16305@dukeread04... You're so full of crap, YOU make assumptions and condemn others without anything but your opinion and guilt. FO. He's been listening to Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Major Owens, birds-of-a-feather with GD in the middle of the moonbat nest. |
#53
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04... I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. Yes, my post was in reply to Matt, who said the US ceased to be a free country in 1864. (Similarly, the Civil War was the earliest event Steven listed when asked to explain his remark that the US had ceased to be a free country.) Also, I was not defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I was not characterizing his answer to a question, You cited his extremist position (as you remembered it) in support of an argument against reparations, and you cited it without any expressed reservations. That context makes it an "approving citation", as that term is ordinarily used. (But yes, merely arguing against reparations is by no means an extremist or inherently racist position.) --Gary |
#54
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Jim Macklin wrote: Traditional slavery would have ended when Briggs & Stratton built their small engines. That's what they said about the cotton gin. Didn't happen. Small engines can be assembled by slaves cheaper than by free labor, just like slaves could operate cotton gins cheaper than free labor. Frederick Douglass worked in Baltimore as a shipwright, alongside free men. Aside from which, there was a moral imperative to end slavery, period, instead of hoping and waiting for it to die out on its own. Those states that voluntarily abolished slavery all did so prior to 1820. From that time forwad slavery became increasing more entrenched, even in Virginia which in the House of Burgesses, came within one vote in the House of Burgesses of abolishing slavery in the 18th century. But, the sex slave trade goes on. This, despite the ubiquitous availability of a cheap alternative-- what does that tell you about the Briggs and Stratton argument? Slavery is rampant in other parts of the world today, primarily Africa, Asia and the Middle East. The UN and the Muslim religion support slavery. Please elaborate on how each does. But let's change the newsgroup to one where this is on-topic. For perspective, damn near every slave in the US and every slave owner was 'Christian.' Douglass had a bit to say about this. Importation of slaves was illegal in the USA after 1807, but ownership was still legal. The South's economy was based on hand labor agriculture, cotton. And slavery had the effect of devaluing labor putting a ceiling on the economic opportunity to free laborers. It was an institution the ultimately demeaned the free man as well. A lot of white people fought and died to free the slaves. A lot of Southerners fought and died to preserve their life-style. Both were honorable. But slavery was still wrong and it ceased to be the same after 1865. But there was still economic "slavery" for many people working for low wages in company towns, buying food and clothes at the company store on credit. And sharecropping which was America's version of serfdom. Laws change, society changes, hopefully for the better. We should remember the past, so we don't continue to make the same mistakes, but we must get over the anger and personal feelings about what happened 50, 100, 150, 500, 2000 years ago. -- FF |
#55
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... OK, from a state perspective I see your point. However, to me a free country means that individuals have freedom, not just states. The slaves in the southern states certainly wouldn't have considered themselves to be living in a free country. Agreed. Slavery was wrong, no question about that. But it was not unconstitutional and it would have eventually ended here without a war just as it did in the rest of the Americas, except Haiti, I believe. Ending slavery without a war was tried in the US and it failed. Escaped slaves and Native Americans in Brazil banded together and formed their own nation (DAGS maroons) internal to Brazil that fought for freedom for most of its ~75 year history. Interestingly, some of the the leaders of the Haitian slave rebellion were veterans of the American Revolutionary War, e.g. commony referred to in our history books as 'French troops.' Lincoln is revered today for preserving the Union, but he did so in only a geographical sense. The relationship of the federal government to the states was significantly different after the war. While slaves gained freedom via the war, every other American was less free. "If one man is not free, no man is free." There's more truth to that than meets the eye. Slavery devalued labor, depriving all laborers of freedom of economic opportunity. De Maupassant wrote about the societal differences along the Ohio River. On the North bank hard workers were respected and they could advance their lot in society via the fruits of their labors. Not so on the South Bank, where men who worked for a living were deemed to be hardly better than slaves. -- FF |
#56
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Matt Barrow wrote: "Neil Gould" wrote in message om... Recently, Jim Macklin posted: Importation of slaves was illegal in the USA after 1807, but ownership was still legal. The South's economy was based on hand labor agriculture, cotton. A lot of white people fought and died to free the slaves. A lot of Southerners fought and died to preserve their life-style. Both were honorable. The petitions issued from the south prior to 1861 all regarded TARIFFS that were deliberatley put in place to favor the industrial north. Nobody killed anyone in bloody Kansas over tariffs. How about petitions issued from the North, calling for the aboltion of slavery? Do you think any southern politician would have agreed to a compromise abolishing both? Pretty much every abolitionist would have jumped at that opportunity. So, you believe it is honorable to fight and die to preserve the ability to own people as property? Gee...isn't hindsight beautiful? Wanna bet a months pay which side you'd have been on IN REAL TIME? Bet that145 years ago, you'd been "Massa". Dunno about him, but 145 years ago my great-great gandfather, an Irish immigrant, enlisted with the Ohio 41st volunteer infantry. -- FF |
#57
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Jim Macklin wrote: I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. Also, I was not defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I was not characterizing his answer to a question, The author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors had been brought to this country so he never had to live in Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery. I'm sure that if I had the money and time to waste, I could get a transcript or even the tape of the interview. But I will just drop the issue since it isn't worth my time to argue about what you think. More to the point, the transcript does not support what you said. I'm glad my ancestors were brought to this country, and that has nothing to do wiht them being enslaved. -- FF |
#58
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Matt Barrow wrote: "Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04... I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~) Also, I was not defending any "right-wing extremist" position. I did recount the interview and the answer that the author made, I was not characterizing his answer to a question, The author, Keith Richburg said he was thankful his ancestors had been brought to this country so he never had to live in Africa. I would say that "brought to" is slavery. Oddly, there have been several times more immigrants in the past 50 years from Africa than were brought as slaves in the early 19th century. Not odd at all when you consider the importation of slaves into the US was abolished early in the 19th century, or when one compares world populations. I'll bet more people died in the 20th century than had lived beofor the 20th centrury. -- FF |
#59
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Matt Barrow wrote: "Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:WKCgg.26391$ZW3.12835@dukeread04... I stated that freedom was lost in 1968. More like 1868 as the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression ... :~) Is this a good time to point out that more than half of the adult citizens of the United States were prohibited from voting (the flaming liberal state of Wyoming excepted) until well into the 20th Century? I suppose for a socialist or a fascist the loss of power by state governments might be considered a loss of freedom. For the rest of of, it is a personal matter. I'll agree also that the minority who previously enjoyed freedom became less free. The Nazis and Baathists became less free when they lost power too. -- FF |
#60
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Those *dangerous* Korean War relics
Gary Drescher wrote:
So you, too, believe the US was a free country until 1864, but not after? Define "free country" and what makes a country "free" or not. |
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