Would this plane have flown?

Was it repaired and completely inspected or were more
repairs done on return to the USA? The indications that I
had from the thread was that more repairs/inspections were
done on the airplane after it returned to the US. Yet you
carried your family after major repairs caused by damage.

Quoting from the original post "I was able to call an A&P to come down
to Mexico and swap it for me." Sadly, the other Mooney owners wants his
back (go figure) so yes, more repairs were also done back home (like
ordering a factory new aileron for me, paint etc). Yes it was
inspected in Mexico by the A&P doing the work and all wing panels
relevant to aileron control were removed before the A&P got in the
plane with me and we performed the test flight. I honestly don't know
what else to do with regard to inspection other than having had the A&P
look at it. I could ask Mooney if they want to send an engineer down
but I don't think that is going to happen.

Jim, I'm still highly offended by your comment about my family.

-Robert

But I understand flutter also relies on the original torsional
stiffness of the wing being preserved. That if it is not (i. e. a
wrinkled wing skin) the flutter margin is reduced. Might even a
properly balanced control surface still flutter if the primary wing
stiffness is compromised? or is the control surface CG the only
determining item? THX

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Quoting from the original post "I was able to call an A&P to come down
to Mexico and swap it for me." Sadly, the other Mooney owners wants his
back (go figure) so yes, more repairs were also done back home (like
ordering a factory new aileron for me, paint etc). Yes it was
inspected in Mexico by the A&P doing the work and all wing panels
relevant to aileron control were removed before the A&P got in the
plane with me and we performed the test flight. I honestly don't know
what else to do with regard to inspection other than having had the A&P
look at it. I could ask Mooney if they want to send an engineer down
but I don't think that is going to happen.

Jim, I'm still highly offended by your comment about my family.

-Robert

IMHO you did everything that could have reasonably been expected.

Then you answered the question, IF you really had a complete
repair and the A&P did make a "return to service" entry. If
he did all that and you did a test flight [you really should
not have carried a passenger, which the A&P would be] and
made the pilot's return to service after test flight, then
what was your question, should you have just flown it away
without any work/inspection or repair?

As for your family, my comment was about your judgment, if
you want to substitute three strangers from the beach,
that's fine with me.


BTW, since some FAA types read these groups, they have your
N number.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
| Was it repaired and completely inspected or were more
| repairs done on return to the USA? The indications that
I
| had from the thread was that more repairs/inspections
were
| done on the airplane after it returned to the US. Yet
you
| carried your family after major repairs caused by
damage.
|
| Quoting from the original post "I was able to call an A&P
to come down
| to Mexico and swap it for me." Sadly, the other Mooney
owners wants his
| back (go figure) so yes, more repairs were also done back
home (like
| ordering a factory new aileron for me, paint etc). Yes it
was
| inspected in Mexico by the A&P doing the work and all wing
panels
| relevant to aileron control were removed before the A&P
got in the
| plane with me and we performed the test flight. I honestly
don't know
| what else to do with regard to inspection other than
having had the A&P
| look at it. I could ask Mooney if they want to send an
engineer down
| but I don't think that is going to happen.
|
| Jim, I'm still highly offended by your comment about my
family.
|
| -Robert
|

Wing stiffness has more to do with control reversal, flutter
has to do with harmonics and balance.

If I had a question about a control surface and I had to fly
the airplane, I would limit speed to Va so that even a full
deflection of the control would not break the airplane.


I've seen pictures of a C210 [old plane with struts] that
took off from a strip near Tulsa with just a little ice on
the ailerons. I got to cruise speed and crashed shortly
there after, the outer wing panels looked like a Navy
fighter with the wings folded.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"nrp" wrote in message
oups.com...
| But I understand flutter also relies on the original
torsional
| stiffness of the wing being preserved. That if it is not
(i. e. a
| wrinkled wing skin) the flutter margin is reduced. Might
even a
| properly balanced control surface still flutter if the
primary wing
| stiffness is compromised? or is the control surface CG the
only
| determining item? THX
|

then what was your question, should you have just flown it away
without any work/inspection or repair?

Jim, again quoting from the original post..
"From a simply academic point of view I"m curious what you guys think."
I was just curious how it would have flown since I obviously did not
fly it.

Again, I was very offended by your comment.

-Robert

In article .com,
"nrp" wrote:

But I understand flutter also relies on the original torsional
stiffness of the wing being preserved. That if it is not (i. e. a
wrinkled wing skin) the flutter margin is reduced. Might even a
properly balanced control surface still flutter if the primary wing
stiffness is compromised? or is the control surface CG the only
determining item? THX


Flutter can also result from unusual airflow exciting a surface (such as
the rather large dent in the aileron tip). It is a function of
stiffness, true airspeed, balance and external excitations.

The owner did the conservative thing -- after all his insurance company
was there to stand behind him. Yes -- the whole thing was obviously a
major PITA, but everyone came out fine. Congratulations!

And I didn't say people should call ahead at every airport they land on.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:RJiUf.2575$3t1.120@trndny08...
I don't call ahead and make arrangements for a mechanic at every airport I
land at. If something goes wrong, I'll deal with the problem.

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
om...
Purely from an academic standpoint, I'm curious why people go into remote
areas of a foreign country (particularly one like Mexico) without some
way
of calling for help if they get stuck, not having made
arrangements/contacts
with a local mechanic in case there were some kind of problem, etc.
People
who can afford having an A&P come down to Mexico to fix a problem ought
to
be able to afford a little planning ahead for eventualities just like
this
one. Academically speaking, of course.

Juan

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.thegaryhouse.com/aircraftdamage/

I was down in a remote area of Mexico this last weekend and a truck
backed into my aileron. I was lucky that the driver had a sat phone and
I was able to call an A&P to come down to Mexico and swap it for me.
However, all the local pilots, and the A&P who came down seemed to
think it would have flown ok as was. From a simply academic point of
view I"m curious what you guys think.

-Robert



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That it may be illegal and that it needs another log entry are two separate
issues. There's also nothing wrong with using a Mexican mechanic if he/she
is an FAA-certified A&P. You can download the airmen database from the
FAA.GOV website and check for certified mechanics living there (as well as
in any other country, they even separate the files for you, domestic and
foreign), or you can go to places like...

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*81558983!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/certs-ap.html

....and search for COUNTRY = MEXICO and off you go.

Also, if you do a little bit of research you'll find this interesting
document...

http://www.bajabushpilots.com/news-pop.php?NewsID=44

....which contains this interesting little tidbit of useful information:

"2) A&P mechanics working on US aircraft in Mexico
Requested by the BBP (Baja Bush Pilots) at the meeting, the DGAC (Dirección
General de Aeronáutica Civil), after consulting with their legal persons (at
the meeting) indicated that this requirement was not a rule or law and that
US A&P mechanics can work on US aircraft in Mexico without the presence of
or signing off by a Mexican A&P. This major change will make repairs much
simpler and less expensive for anyone who has a problem in Mexico. The DG
indicated that he will be sending a message to all ICAO airports addressing
this situation this week."

All of this is academically-speaking, of course. Don't take it personally,
I'm just trying to show the benefits of doing a bit of googledigging before
heading off in that nice Mooney of yours to a remote location in a foreign
country.

Juan

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
not having made arrangements/contacts
with a local mechanic in case there were some kind of problem, etc

Having a local mechanic work on your plane only solves 1/2 the problem
because the plane is again illegal as soon as you get back to the
states since you would need another log entry from a U.S. mechanic. I
think its better to skip the Mexican mechanic and just have the A&P do
the work and don't let the Mexicans find out.

-Robert



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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
om...
Purely from an academic standpoint, I'm curious why people go into remote
areas of a foreign country (particularly one like Mexico) without some
way of calling for help if they get stuck

What would you suggest? Satellite phones are pretty much the only
solution that I see and they are quite expensive. They are also a
relatively recent invention (especially with respect to consumers like
us), and somehow people managed to get by without them prior to their
availability.

There are other solutions, such as portable radios of various types, as well
as arrangements to have someone come down to the location if you haven't
been heard from in x number of hours or days.

, not having made arrangements/contacts with a local mechanic in case
there were some kind of problem, etc.

This is an even more bizarre thought, IMHO. Do you arrange for a local
mechanic at every location to which you fly? I sure don't. I doubt many
pilots do.

What is bizarre is reading what I said and translating that into "every
location to which you fly." That is absurd. Note that the original post
mentions a REMOTE LOCATION IN MEXICO. Enough said.

People who can afford having an A&P come down to Mexico to fix a problem
ought to be able to afford a little planning ahead for eventualities just
like this one. Academically speaking, of course.

"People who can afford"? My understanding is that Robert wasn't the one
footing the bill.

I didn't get that at all from what I read. Did the insurance company pay for
the A&P coming down to the "remote location" in Mexico to make the repairs,
including the cost of the parts? The point is there are quite a few A&P's in
Mexico proper, FAA-certified. Just because someone is Mexican doesn't mean
he/she can't do repairs on N-reg aircraft.

Juan


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