New Vent!

Do you blokes suffer from major flatulence problems? Seems a lot of effort
to remove air from the cockpit but I could understand if the air was
contaminated in some way :-)



At 19:16 07 December 2010, wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:46=A0am, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:56=A0am, Andy wrote:





On Dec 6, 7:37=A0pm, sisu1a wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/337bok7=A0=A0...I'm sure it works like a champ.
=A0=
Nice
work John/Hank/Dick!

Looks nice but where do I put all the stuff that now sits in the
over-
spar storage area? =A0I don't think I want to discard my landout
kit
so
I can fit a vent system that has an unknown (to me) performance
advantage.

For me to be interested in a kit for the ASW-28 it would have to
extend the storage area aft so that, with the vent kit installed, at
least the same storage volume was still available, preferably more.
There is lots of room to extend backwards as is done in the 27's.
Unlike shorter pilots there in no room behind my seat and everything
I
carry has to go just forward of, or over the spar.

Where can I find a picture of the installation looking aft into the
spar area?

Andy

An interesting gadget. =A0However, wouldn't it be more logical to
vent
nearer the rear of the fuselage, say in the lower tail?

Mike- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have an exit vent in the lower aft area of the fuselage of both my
'27 and '28. With all the other stuff done sealing rudder hinge,
elevator drive, horn splitters, etc, it improved negative pressure and
flow and resulted in less noise. This vent is a huge ass ache to put
in with the associated nozzle, has significant structural implications
requiring reinforcement, and simply, is not for the faint hearted.
The new vent on top is in a low pressure area which helps a lot with
getting flow and reduced cockpit pressure. It also takes an hour and a
half to install instead of about 10 hr. It's structural implications
are minimal. It slightly reduces available baggage storage in the top
center 4 inches.
Both my gliders will have rear vents closed this winter and '28 will
get top vent.
FWIW
UH

Well, Paul isn't tooting his own horn with the experimentation he's
done, but I can attest to how well the extractor works that he has
built. He built a prototype for my ASW-20 that replaces the control
hookup hatch. The difference is incredible. I am able to fly with
the side window vents closed most of the time now, even when it's
pretty hot and we aren't getting that high. Not that heat has been a
problem for the last month or so. The whistling and air noise is so
significantly reduced that I found myself initially thermalling at 5+
knots higher airspeed than before, just because of the reduced audio
feedback. It took a bit to recalibrate to the reduced noise.

It's good enough that I was already considering modifying my Duo.
Especially if you live somewhere hot, the comfort is well worth it
regardless of if the performance impacts.

Morgan

On 12/7/2010 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have an exit vent in the lower aft area of the fuselage of both my
'27 and '28. With all the other stuff done sealing rudder hinge,
elevator drive, horn splitters, etc, it improved negative pressure and
flow and resulted in less noise. This vent is a huge ass ache to put
in with the associated nozzle, has significant structural implications
requiring reinforcement, and simply, is not for the faint hearted.
The new vent on top is in a low pressure area which helps a lot with
getting flow and reduced cockpit pressure. It also takes an hour and a
half to install instead of about 10 hr. It's structural implications
are minimal. It slightly reduces available baggage storage in the top
center 4 inches.
Both my gliders will have rear vents closed this winter and '28 will
get top vent.

I got so much air from the front vent and eyeball vent on my ASH 26 E
(standard tail vents at the rudder cables) that I plugged up half the
duct work from the nose to make it easier to control. Still get tons of
air from the eyeball and scoop when I open them, so the air doesn't seem
to have any trouble getting out of the glider. I don't know where it is
leaving, however.

How low must the cockpit pressure be to assure myself the air isn't
going out the canopy/cockpit edge, gear doors or wing roots?

What is a good way to measure the cockpit pressure?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Dec 7, 1:49*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 12/7/2010 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have an exit vent in the lower aft area of the fuselage of both my
'27 and '28. With all the other stuff done sealing rudder hinge,
elevator drive, horn splitters, etc, it improved negative pressure and
flow and resulted in less noise. This vent is a huge ass ache to put
in with the associated nozzle, has significant structural implications
requiring reinforcement, and simply, is not for the faint hearted.
The new vent on top is in a low pressure area which helps a lot with
getting flow and reduced cockpit pressure. It also takes an hour and a
half to install instead of about 10 hr. It's structural implications
are minimal. It slightly reduces available baggage storage in the top
center 4 inches.
Both my gliders will have rear vents closed this winter and '28 will
get top vent.

I got so much air from the front vent and eyeball vent on my ASH 26 E
(standard tail vents at the rudder cables) that I plugged up half the
duct work from the nose to make it easier to control. Still get tons of
air from the eyeball and scoop when I open them, so the air doesn't seem
to have any trouble getting out of the glider. I don't know where it is
leaving, however.

How low must the cockpit pressure be to assure myself the air isn't
going out the canopy/cockpit edge, gear doors or wing roots?

What is a good way to measure the cockpit pressure?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

In my case a water manometer* connected to the static system on one
side and open to cabin pressure on the other. All I need to do is get
around to it. I've been carrying thte bits and pieces in my trailer
for a couple years now, but I always think I'm going to fly 500k, and
don't want to carry stuff around (while I actually fly 'round the
patch all day).

*just a piece of clear vinyl tubing actually

I experienced the reaction of several pilots to Paul's AS-W20 vent
mod, all positive. First saw this kit in Hank's shop. Looked at my
vent parts when I was up at Williams the other day.
To hopefully answer Andy's question: The largest part (the scoop
from the canopy rail to the hard mounted outer part) is removable.
Velcro onto the canopy frame and a ring of foam sealing the throat
where it slides into the outer part. It will take some room in the
baggage compartment, but not most of it.
In my 27 I won't be able to use much of the scoop, since there's an
"E" Oxygen bottle in the upper baggage compartment and currently an
APRS black box strapped on top of it.
Regarding flatulence, it's more about moving hot air (including that
I've generated in this forum) since many of us fly where it gets
bloody hot.
"More beans, Mr. Taggart?"
Jim

On Dec 7, 6:56*am, Andy wrote:

Looks nice but where do I put all the stuff that now sits in the over-
spar storage area? *I don't think I want to discard my landout kit so
I can fit a vent system that has an unknown (to me) performance
advantage.

Andy

I have an exit vent in the lower aft area of the fuselage of both my
'27 and '28. With all the other stuff done sealing rudder hinge,
elevator drive, horn splitters, etc, it improved negative pressure and
flow and resulted in less noise. This vent is a huge ass ache to put
in with the associated nozzle, has significant structural implications
requiring reinforcement, and simply, is not for the faint hearted.
The new vent on top is in a low pressure area which helps a lot with
getting flow and reduced cockpit pressure. It also takes an hour and a
half to install instead of about 10 hr. It's structural implications
are minimal. It slightly reduces available baggage storage in the top
center 4 inches.
Both my gliders will have rear vents closed this winter and '28 will
get top vent.
FWIW
UH

What work needs to be done to fit these to other types? Reglass the
cockpit scoop to fit the inside of the fuselage shell?

2C

I assume this vent will not work with a fuselage tank installed,
correct?

On Dec 7, 7:20*pm, Kevin Christner wrote:
I have an exit vent in the lower aft area of the fuselage of both my
'27 and '28. With all the other stuff done sealing rudder hinge,
elevator drive, horn splitters, etc, it improved negative pressure and
flow and resulted in less noise. This vent is a huge ass ache to put
in with the associated nozzle, has significant structural implications
requiring reinforcement, and simply, is not for the faint hearted.
The new vent on top is in a low pressure area which helps a lot with
getting flow and reduced cockpit pressure. It also takes an hour and a
half to install instead of about 10 hr. It's structural implications
are minimal. It slightly reduces available baggage storage in the top
center 4 inches.
Both my gliders will have rear vents closed this winter and '28 will
get top vent.
FWIW
UH

What work needs to be done to fit these to other types? *Reglass the
cockpit scoop to fit the inside of the fuselage shell?

2C

One done so far is for '24/27/28/29. It is molded to follow the inside
contour of the fuselage which has a lap joint.
To make one to fit another type, outer shape needs to be matched and
inner shape needs to be matched. Long answer
to say it probably won't be right. Other ships may follow- we'll see.
UH/LX

On Dec 7, 9:12*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
I assume this vent will not work with a fuselage tank installed,
correct?

Requires mod to fuselage tank. This is in prototyping and mold making
and will be available early next year. Probably not
as a home kit. It is much more complicated to install than the vent.
UH/LX

On Dec 8, 5:48*am, wrote:

One done so far is for '24/27/28/29. It is molded to follow the inside
contour of the fuselage which has a lap joint.
To make one to fit another type, outer shape needs to be matched and
inner shape needs to be matched. Long answer
to say it probably won't be right. Other ships may follow- we'll see.
UH/LX

Any thought of making an extended baggage tray for the 28? There is
no reason it couldn't extend back like the 27 does. That would give me
back the forward of spar space that I would lose with the collector
plate. That forward of spar space is filled on my glider with 2 water
bottles, hand held radio, parachute bag, and canopy cover. (and the
essential landout deterrent - the stale peanut butter sandwich)

Maybe the reason my 28 is quiet is that all the space between my head
and the tail is stuffed full

What measurements have been done on performance gains? I'd like to
see data for your 28 pre vent and post vent for sink rate at 90kts. I
won't spend $500 to reduce noise level or increase ventilation but I
would for a significant reduction in the sink rate at high speeds.

Andy