Libelle 201 query

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:09:58 -0700, Steve Leonard wrote:

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:30:25 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:


WS extended the top of the fuselage forward to a little in front of the
wing LE. Probably this was as much so he could build decent wing
fairings onto the fuselage as anything, but it also meant that he
halved the length of the canopy. He hinged the new short canopy so it
opened back on top of the extended fuselage top.

Minor correction, Martin. WS did NOT hinge his canopy. It was still a
lift off and set on the ground affair.

Thanks for the correction.

JJ Sinclair modified the
fuselage on a 301 Libelle, by completely changing the canopy and making
it a two piece affair, more similar to the Kestrel with the front piece
fixed, and the rear piece hinged at the back. Both did it to make
improved wing root fairings.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the info.

I am guessing this is what you are asking about?

http://libelle.bugwiper.com/oyvxx_k.jpg

I wasn't asking, being happy with my Libelle as she stands, but Ommadawn
will find this interesting and I have a question or two about that rear
hinge.

- I'm guessing that it needs a spring to help the pilot swing it
up when he gets out. Is this right?

- Can the pilot close it without help and if so, how?
It looks like quite a stretch to get a grip on the frame when
you're in the glider.

- Were there any problems with the open canopy on a windy day?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Originally Posted by Martin Gregorie[_5_]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:09:58 -0700, Steve Leonard wrote:

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:30:25 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:


WS extended the top of the fuselage forward to a little in front of the
wing LE. Probably this was as much so he could build decent wing
fairings onto the fuselage as anything, but it also meant that he
halved the length of the canopy. He hinged the new short canopy so it
opened back on top of the extended fuselage top.

Minor correction, Martin. WS did NOT hinge his canopy. It was still a
lift off and set on the ground affair.

Thanks for the correction.

JJ Sinclair modified the
fuselage on a 301 Libelle, by completely changing the canopy and making
it a two piece affair, more similar to the Kestrel with the front piece
fixed, and the rear piece hinged at the back. Both did it to make
improved wing root fairings.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the info.

I am guessing this is what you are asking about?

http://libelle.bugwiper.com/oyvxx_k.jpg

I wasn't asking, being happy with my Libelle as she stands, but Ommadawn
will find this interesting and I have a question or two about that rear
hinge.

- I'm guessing that it needs a spring to help the pilot swing it
up when he gets out. Is this right?

- Can the pilot close it without help and if so, how?
It looks like quite a stretch to get a grip on the frame when
you're in the glider.

- Were there any problems with the open canopy on a windy day?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Steve, thank you VERY much for that image. I was hoping that someone had done it already, so I know now that it is possible. The rear hinge mod looks to be exactly what I would like to achieve. Im just surprised that more people have not done it.
The amount of angle it opens to could be adjusted to make it accessible from a seated position. I assume some sort of spring or preferably gas strut would be included within the hinge mechanism. There is ample room aft of the canopy within the hull. This region has significant structural reinforcement to support additional hardware for a hinge attachment. The canopy frame also appears to be sufficiently robust to support some form of attachment. I will discuss this with an engineering pal and see what input he has.

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 8:43:10 AM UTC-5, Ommadawn wrote:


Steve, thank you VERY much for that image. I was hoping that someone had
done it already, so I know now that it is possible. The rear hinge mod
looks to be exactly what I would like to achieve. Im just surprised that
more people have not done it.
The amount of angle it opens to could be adjusted to make it accessible
from a seated position. I assume some sort of spring or preferably gas
strut would be included within the hinge mechanism. There is ample room
aft of the canopy within the hull. This region has significant
structural reinforcement to support additional hardware for a hinge
attachment. The canopy frame also appears to be sufficiently robust to
support some form of attachment. I will discuss this with an engineering
pal and see what input he has.


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+



--
Ommadawn

I believe he lost the space for an oxygen bottle (at least, the factory installation space) when he did that mod. Also, many easy ways to be able to lower the canopy while seated. Most notable being something like a leather cord that hangs down from the canopy into easy grasp range. You can find several other images, maybe of that same Libelle, with Google. You may also find pictures of a twin wheeled Libelle!

Link to a few shots of the one JJ modified.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../103076/page1/

Steve Leonard

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 9:43:10 AM UTC-4, Ommadawn wrote:
'Martin Gregorie[_5_ Wrote:
;923127']On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:09:58 -0700, Steve Leonard wrote:
-
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:30:25 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

-
WS extended the top of the fuselage forward to a little in front of the
wing LE. Probably this was as much so he could build decent wing
fairings onto the fuselage as anything, but it also meant that he
halved the length of the canopy. He hinged the new short canopy so it
opened back on top of the extended fuselage top.-

Minor correction, Martin. WS did NOT hinge his canopy. It was still a
lift off and set on the ground affair.
-
Thanks for the correction.
-
JJ Sinclair modified the
fuselage on a 301 Libelle, by completely changing the canopy and making
it a two piece affair, more similar to the Kestrel with the front piece
fixed, and the rear piece hinged at the back. Both did it to make
improved wing root fairings.
-
That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the info.
-
I am guessing this is what you are asking about?

http://libelle.bugwiper.com/oyvxx_k.jpg
-
I wasn't asking, being happy with my Libelle as she stands, but Ommadawn

will find this interesting and I have a question or two about that rear
hinge.

- I'm guessing that it needs a spring to help the pilot swing it
up when he gets out. Is this right?

- Can the pilot close it without help and if so, how?
It looks like quite a stretch to get a grip on the frame when
you're in the glider.

- Were there any problems with the open canopy on a windy day?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


Steve, thank you VERY much for that image. I was hoping that someone had
done it already, so I know now that it is possible. The rear hinge mod
looks to be exactly what I would like to achieve. Im just surprised that
more people have not done it.
The amount of angle it opens to could be adjusted to make it accessible
from a seated position. I assume some sort of spring or preferably gas
strut would be included within the hinge mechanism. There is ample room
aft of the canopy within the hull. This region has significant
structural reinforcement to support additional hardware for a hinge
attachment. The canopy frame also appears to be sufficiently robust to
support some form of attachment. I will discuss this with an engineering
pal and see what input he has.


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+



--
Ommadawn

There are more photos of this on the Yahoo Libelle use group site.
UH

I believe that glider resides at my club in upstate NY. If needed, I can get more specific pictures of it.

--
Ommadawn[/i][/color]

I believe he lost the space for an oxygen bottle (at least, the factory installation space) when he did that mod. Also, many easy ways to be able to lower the canopy while seated. Most notable being something like a leather cord that hangs down from the canopy into easy grasp range. You can find several other images, maybe of that same Libelle, with Google. You may also find pictures of a twin wheeled Libelle!

Link to a few shots of the one JJ modified.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../103076/page1/

Steve Leonard[/quote]

Hi Steve,
I'm not too worried about losing the O2 setup, but the attachment points for it could be useful. Certainly a lanyard would be a simple solution. I don't see that the canopy needs to swing open as far as 90 degrees. I didn't have much success tracking down any more images of that particular mod though.
The JJ mod looks quite radical.

Hi Chaps,
Just a quick update..
I have flown the ass of my Libelle since the last posting.
I have had 11 launches, but have already logged 22+ hours in her.
That includes 1x 4 minute, 1x 11 minute and 1x30 minute. The rest were either 2+ or 3 hours..
Averaging 2 hrs per sortie atm. Its just too much fun!
The season is nearing the end downunder, with probably just a few more weekends. I'm planning on dragging out every last minute of airtime before pulling her down for seasonal maintenance.
I will be leaving XC until next season.
Currently, I am wrestling with getting XCSoar to run on a purpose bought Asus Nexus 7" Android device, with a lot of frustration.
Why do computers make me feel so ignorant???
Cheers guys,
Frank.

Hi all again,
I hope someone is still watching this thread..
My 201B is in the garage for annual maintenance.
I need to replace the fuselage lift tubes, as the shoulder spigot pins are excessively worn on the LH side. The spigot pins are welded into the tubes, and are located in the fuselage with a shouldered sleeve that slips over the end of the spigot. There is room between the sleeve and the end of the tube for shims
Has anyone had experience removing and replacing these bits? I have a few ideas, but do not want to experiment.

Originally Posted by Ommadawn

Hi all again,
I hope someone is still watching this thread..
My 201B is in the garage for annual maintenance.
I need to replace the fuselage lift tubes, as the shoulder spigot pins are excessively worn on the LH side. The spigot pins are welded into the tubes, and are located in the fuselage with a shouldered sleeve that slips over the end of the spigot. There is room between the sleeve and the end of the tube for shims
Has anyone had experience removing and replacing these bits? I have a few ideas, but do not want to experiment.

I replaced the fuselage lift pins and compression tubes this weekend. It went a lot easier than I expected. I heated the glass to 50C first, to soften the glue. After cutting the tubes in half, I twisted them with vice grips to break the glue bond. Gradually, the tube halves twist/pulled out.
After a good cleanup, the replacements were epoxied in.