US Dollar sinks to new low against Euro

I agree with Steve. As an example, the Russia AC-5 sold very well because
it had a good price and decent performance. It has about 70% of the L/D of
ASH 26 E, but was about 40% of the price, and 30+ pilots found that very
attractive. Unfortunately, it's not available new now, and the
manufacturer's intentions aren't known.

L/D is somewhat overrated as Bob K and others point out, especially for a
motorglider. A Russia pilot might have to use his engine more often than I
do in my ASH 26, but what's an extra 10-15 minutes of engine, 5 or 6 times
a year? Nothing really, but it sure can expand your soaring options.


I can attest to Eric's statement about the ability of the Russia 5M to
expand your soaring options. While it seems to me the LS-4 is a great
glider, I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that
would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of
my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes
from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased
number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance
reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to
be a soaring pilot.

Tim

.....I bought a 5M this last spring for roughly the amount of money that
would get me an LS-4. However, the 5M allowed me to fly twice the hours of
my previous high hour season because I could fly from an airport 10 minutes
from my house as opposed to 2 or 2.5 hours from home. For me, the increased
number of hours greatly makes up for the relatively small performance
reduction because I feel I am making more rapid progression in my quest to
be a soaring pilot.


What's missing here is the camaraderie and sharing your passion with
like-minded individuals at the gliderport. This is important for some,
and less so for others. I admit that I would find a 2.5 hour drive "a
haul".

Tony V. "6N"

..If it seems one thing is missing, it
seems like that is a self launched kit sailplane, for the enthusiast who
truly wants to be free of the encumbrance of waiting in line for tows...and
all the associated headaches of retrieves.

It is not missing it already exists, the Apis M is a selflaunch 15meter span
glider available in kit form. It uses modern design concepts and materials. The
39hp. engine assures good climb rates even at high density altitudes.

Visit the web site for more information. www.apisgliders.com

In all fairness I must mention that the Silent selflaunch is also available in
kit form but is 13meters in span.

Robert Mudd
Apis Sailplanes Inc.

On 13 Nov 2004 01:51:12 GMT, ojunk (Robertmudd1u)
wrote:

It is not missing it already exists, the Apis M is a selflaunch 15meter span
glider available in kit form. It uses modern design concepts and materials. The
39hp. engine assures good climb rates even at high density altitudes.

Unfortunately that Apis is anything but cheap...

Visit the web site for more information. www.apisgliders.com

In all fairness I must mention that the Silent selflaunch is also available in
kit form but is 13meters in span.

..... and it's electric!
This is what I regard as the future of gliding.


Bye
Andreas

Unfortunately that Apis is anything but cheap...

Andreas,

"Cheap" is a relative term. the Apis M is less than half the price of a DG 800
or ASW-26. If you have a partner it is even better.

In a "cheap" motorglider you will mostly likely get what you pay for.

Robert Mudd

On 14 Nov 2004 00:24:35 GMT, ojunk (Robertmudd1u)
wrote:


"Cheap" is a relative term. the Apis M is less than half the price of a DG 800
or ASW-26. If you have a partner it is even better.

You are completely correect here - here in Germany a partnership is
the preferred way to own a glider.

But reading RAS I got the impression that partnerships are not common
in the US (hence the interest of many US pilots in cheap - or shall I
say low-budget? - gliders). Is my impression correct?



Bye
Andreas

(Mike Stringfellow) wrote in message . com...
The US dollar is now valued close to 0.75 Euro, down from its peak of
1.25 a couple of years ago. Analysts say it may go even lower, with
some projecting exchange rates of 0.7 (1.4 dollar to the Euro).


You ain't seen nothing yet!
With the current financial state of the US the real bottom of the US
dollar is still far away.
The 1.4 dollar to the Euro is just a matter of weeks.

Kirk Wrote:

I would love to have a self-launch, as long as I didn't give up any
performance - when I win the lottery I'm buying an Antares! But it
would be in addition to my pure glider - I love the whole routine of
soaring - arriving early, rigging, waiting for the best time to
launch, the tow (or winch launch), getting home or landing out (and
the adventure that ensues), then putting everything away in the
evening. Self launch seems to me to trade convenience for solitude -
I like the company of other gliders! Again, thats a typical US
"lonesome cowboy" attitude (and there is nothing wrong with that!) -
unlike the european social approach to soaring. I've done it both
ways, and much prefer doing it with friends!

Well Kirk,
sometimes you feel like a nut...sometimes you don't. For me, self
launch has been amazingly good. I have managed to fly on the average of 140
hours a year since starting flying else launchers. This I've managed 168
hours and I'm not done yet. It has provided me the opportunity to fly when
the weather is okay, good or flat out amazing, as well as to try things when
the weather is poor but you are just curios if there's any way you might
actually be able to get somewhere...I do find that the comraderie issue is
different. While everyone else is driving to get somewhere, I am able to
wait and check Dr. Jacks and then actually see if things do what they are
supposed to, before comitting to spend a few hours on a maybe. What I feel
it really does though, is on those nice mid-week days...when you just look
out the window before lunch and you think..."ya know...I should skip out of
here and go fly..." in the winter it's magic, simply because in most cases
there's simply no other option if you are reliant upon a tow plane. I still
love flying with other sailplanes, and I really enjoy being in a position to
help others coming along try to put the nose out there and go
somewhere...wherever you find self launchers, you will always find a willing
sniffer or a guy who'll be willing to go first in most any endeavor.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am suggesting that if soaring is
to grow again and begin to flourish, I believe it will be in conjunction
with self launching being a substantial role, based in no small part be
simply alleviating hassle on the retrieve side additional to the flexibility
of trying new things without quite the same level of orchestration required
to run a pure soaring operation. My comments were mainly intended to
hopefully stimulate a couple of the guys who are working towards producing
new sailplanes for homebuilders, to consider offering self launchers...

I think perhaps the thing that I see with self launching is basd on my own
experience. I feel that I have been able to accelerate my learning curve, by
using my self launcher to simply gather different experiences and even to
mitigate certain risks and allow myself to move forward to continue learning
and get to where I want to go. There are plenty of people like me, who fly
sailplanes and seldom hang out with clubs. When I had pure sailplanes I had
a towplane as well and one of my buddies would launch me. I know several
people who do just that, there are folks that like to sit and chat and there
are others that like to help, and there are plenty like me...that like to
fly. The mechanism doesn't alter those issues at all in my humble opinion.
I'd guess if/when you get that Antares, you'll find whatever you fly now,
collecting dust. Besides, if you get bored of self launching, you can show
up early...rig...BS...wait in line and take a tow...and be just one of the
guys...


Respectfully,



Steve.

Steve Hill wrote in message ...

I'd guess if/when you get that Antares, you'll find whatever you fly now,
collecting dust.

Good point (and all of this discussion is fun - "devil's advocate"
stuff at times.

You may be right that if I had a self launch my pure glider would
gather dust - I would probably trade it for a really nice 1-26 (with
an open canopy) and a Swift for acro. Different tools for different
jobs.

But I'm not sure about self-launching being the way to grow the sport,
purely on a cost basis. I could afford half of a cherry LS6, and have
flown it about 200 hours a year ever since I got it. There is
absolutely no way I can pony up to the equivalent self launcher
(lottery excepted, of course!). How many newbies are going to take
that first jump?

Cheers,

Kirk

Interesting post Steve.
As an over 50 newbie to soaring flying out of a club that operates 7 days a
week during the soaring season, I thought a self launcher was only useful on
days when the flight line gets long. Hearing horror stories about increased
fatalities when landing out associated with the motor (waiting too long,
failing to start, etc.) I didn't think there was a whole lot of value for
the extra $. Your post puts a different spin on it - accelerated learning,
safely exploring marginal conditions, etc. When you consider the cost of 100
tows a year, and SLs (an Apis anyway) running about an extra $20K USD, you
can amortize the motor over ten years or so with saved tow fees (which keep
going up). Sure, maintenance will cost more, but life is short.

Wad

It has provided me the opportunity to fly when
the weather is okay, good or flat out amazing, as well as to try things
when
the weather is poor but you are just curios if there's any way you might
actually be able to get somewhere... I feel that I have been able to
accelerate my learning curve, by
using my self launcher to simply gather different experiences and even to
mitigate certain risks and allow myself to move forward to continue
learning
and get to where I want to go.