Soaring experience at Driggs, ID with Teton Aviation

I like to fly at different places, so I visited Driggs, Idaho and flew
with Teton Aviation this summer. Driggs is a small town (population:
1100) right next to the Grand Teton range and a scenic place to fly.
But if you are interested in flying a pure glider there, there are a
few details you might want to be aware of.

You must reserve a tow at a specific time in advance, and you must
take off at that time regardless of the lift condition. You may cancel
your tow 2 hours before the scheduled time without a penalty. You may
reschedule your tow to a later time of the same day without a penalty
if there is an availability.

The FBO (Teton Aviation) and tie-down area are located at the south
end of the runway (runway 3). Most of the time, there is a southerly
wind in the afternoon, so you will be taking off from runway 21. Since
private vehicles are not allowed on the taxi way, you must ask Teton
Aviation to tow your glider from the tie-down area to runway 21. There
is a $15 charge for this service.

There is a small, paved, private land connected to the north end of
the taxi way. You may be allowed to keep your glider in this area if
the land owner permits. The benefit of keeping your glider there is
that you do not need to move it for 1.2 miles between the tie-down and
runway 21 everyday. The land owner was nice enough to let me use the
area this time, so I kept my glider there. However, there are no tie-
down cables and it's hard-surface, so basically you must leave your
glider untied or disassemble and assemble it everyday. The ground
outside of the hard-surface area has lots of tall, wild thistles and
is not suitable for the tie-down in my opinion.

Teton Aviation's main business is scenic rides, and they seemed to
have much higher priority than private glider tows (a scenic ride is
$250 and a 2,000 ft glider tow is $45). If scenic rides are busy, your
tow will be often delayed. I had three tows from Teton Aviation, and
two of them were delayed for 30 minutes, and the other was delayed for
62 minutes. In one case, I had my tow scheduled at 2pm, and the tow
plane showed up around 2:30pm with a Blanik for the scenic ride
scheduled at 2:30pm. I pointed out that my tow was scheduled at 2pm
and I had been waiting for 30 minutes, but they towed up the 2:30pm
scenic ride first, then me. There are no structures or trees to
provide you shades at runway 21 while waiting.

When you take off from runway 21, the line services may or may not be
provided at the discretion of Teton Aviation. I had them for only one
of the three tows. You must push your glider into the runway, take
dollies off, hook up the rope by yourself, and take off with a wing on
the ground. I took off in the 15 kts of wind with gusts without a wing
runner. The tow pilot was considerate enough to request a wing runner
for me over the radio, but Teton Aviation declined the request.
Personally, this was the only glider FBO I’ve ever seen in 23 years
which doesn't provide a wing runner, but I said to myself that I just
landed out on a desert airport and doing an aero-retrieve. The takeoff
was uneventful.

If you have no line services, your dollies will be left where you left
them. The first exit to the taxi way on runway 21 is about 705 yards
from where you take off. After I landed, it was too windy to leave my
glider unattended, so I called Teton Aviation over the radio and asked
them to bring dollies for me. They did so, but I’m not too sure they
always provide this service.

There are quite frequent power plane traffics including business jets.
In the vicinity of the airport, contrary to the "right of way" rules,
Teton Aviation’s operation policy requires you to yield the way to
power planes unless there are safety concerns.

Overall, I didn't feel that it was a suitable place to do cross-
country flights mainly due to their tow scheduling policy. So, I left
there after flying three days. But the Grand Teton range was very
beautiful. I also enjoyed hanging around in Jackson, WY and visiting
Grand Teton National Park.

Thanks,
-Gen

On Aug 29, 11:08*am, gen wrote:
I like to fly at different places, so I visited Driggs, Idaho and flew
with Teton Aviation this summer. Driggs is a small town (population:
1100) right next to the Grand Teton range and a scenic place to fly.
But if you are interested in flying a pure glider there, there are a
few details you might want to be aware of.

You must reserve a tow at a specific time in advance, and you must
take off at that time regardless of the lift condition. You may cancel
your tow 2 hours before the scheduled time without a penalty. You may
reschedule your tow to a later time of the same day without a penalty
if there is an availability.

The FBO (Teton Aviation) and tie-down area are located at the south
end of the runway (runway 3). Most of the time, there is a southerly
wind in the afternoon, so you will be taking off from runway 21. Since
private vehicles are not allowed on the taxi way, you must ask Teton
Aviation to tow your glider from the tie-down area to runway 21. There
is a $15 charge for this service.

There is a small, paved, private land connected to the north end of
the taxi way. You may be allowed to keep your glider in this area if
the land owner permits. The benefit of keeping your glider there is
that you do not need to move it for 1.2 miles between the tie-down and
runway 21 everyday. The land owner was nice enough to let me use the
area this time, so I kept my glider there. However, there are no tie-
down cables and it's hard-surface, so basically you must leave your
glider untied or disassemble and assemble it everyday. The ground
outside of the hard-surface area has lots of tall, wild thistles and
is not suitable for the tie-down in my opinion.

Teton Aviation's main business is scenic rides, and they seemed to
have much higher priority than private glider tows (a scenic ride is
$250 and a 2,000 ft glider tow is $45). If scenic rides are busy, your
tow will be often delayed. I had three tows from Teton Aviation, and
two of them were delayed for 30 minutes, and the other was delayed for
62 minutes. In one case, I had my tow scheduled at 2pm, and the tow
plane showed up around 2:30pm with a Blanik for the scenic ride
scheduled at 2:30pm. I pointed out that my tow was scheduled at 2pm
and I had been waiting for 30 minutes, but they towed up the 2:30pm
scenic ride first, then me. There are no structures or trees to
provide you shades at runway 21 while waiting.

When you take off from runway 21, the line services may or may not be
provided at the discretion of Teton Aviation. I had them for only one
of the three tows. You must push your glider into the runway, take
dollies off, hook up the rope by yourself, and take off with a wing on
the ground. I took off in the 15 kts of wind with gusts without a wing
runner. The tow pilot was considerate enough to request a wing runner
for me over the radio, but Teton Aviation declined the request.
Personally, this was the only glider FBO I’ve ever seen in 23 years
which doesn't provide a wing runner, but I said to myself that I just
landed out on a desert airport and doing an aero-retrieve. The takeoff
was uneventful.

If you have no line services, your dollies will be left where you left
them. The first exit to the taxi way on runway 21 is about 705 yards
from where you take off. After I landed, it was too windy to leave my
glider unattended, so I called Teton Aviation over the radio and asked
them to bring dollies for me. They did so, but I’m not too sure they
always provide this service.

There are quite frequent power plane traffics including business jets.
In the vicinity of the airport, contrary to the "right of way" rules,
Teton Aviation’s operation policy requires you to yield the way to
power planes unless there are safety concerns.

Overall, I didn't feel that it was a suitable place to do cross-
country flights mainly due to their tow scheduling policy. So, I left
there after flying three days. But the Grand Teton range was very
beautiful. I also enjoyed hanging around in Jackson, WY and visiting
Grand Teton National Park.

Thanks,
-Gen

Gen,

I'm not sure how the Teton Soaring club operates there, but they may
have soaring weeks that would provide a better experience for the
visiting pilot.

Did you happen to join either the Mackay, Idaho, camp or visit King
Mountain? I'm told you can reach the Tetons on a good day from
there. I'd also like to hear of any reports from Baker City, Oregon,
about Serendipity Soaring and how pilots are finding local conditions.

There are some commercial operators that will put rides ahead of
private tows, but I've never used one, nor have I ever had to schedule
at a commercial operation. I just took my turn in the queue. That
said, I've heard of pilots waiting hours due to rides. I understand
how the ride business is the bread and butter activity to some
commercial operators and their staff, especially at tourist
locations. Others cater to training and the private owners. Of
course the mix of private and commercial traffic varies widely from
location to location. Been through Salida, Colorado? Tows only, no
rides or training for several years.

Frank Whiteley

Gen,

Frank is correct, flights have been flown from Hailey, Mackay and King Mountain Glider Park to the Grand Teton. Here is the OLC link to a flight flown from King Mountain Glider Park this summer.
http://tinyurl.com/KMGP-DRIGGS

Driggs isn't the only place in Idaho that has great scenery. The scenery in Central Idaho is also spectacular.
http://www.soaridaho.com/photogallery/Mackay_2006/

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message ...
On Aug 29, 11:08 am, gen wrote:
Did you happen to join either the Mackay, Idaho, camp or visit King
Mountain? I'm told you can reach the Tetons on a good day from
there. I'd also like to hear of any reports from Baker City, Oregon,
about Serendipity Soaring and how pilots are finding local conditions.

Originally Posted by gen

I like to fly at different places, so I visited Driggs, Idaho and flew
with Teton Aviation this summer. Driggs is a small town (population:
1100) right next to the Grand Teton range and a scenic place to fly.
But if you are interested in flying a pure glider there, there are a
few details you might want to be aware of.

You must reserve a tow at a specific time in advance, and you must
take off at that time regardless of the lift condition. You may cancel
your tow 2 hours before the scheduled time without a penalty. You may
reschedule your tow to a later time of the same day without a penalty
if there is an availability.

The FBO (Teton Aviation) and tie-down area are located at the south
end of the runway (runway 3). Most of the time, there is a southerly
wind in the afternoon, so you will be taking off from runway 21. Since
private vehicles are not allowed on the taxi way, you must ask Teton
Aviation to tow your glider from the tie-down area to runway 21. There
is a $15 charge for this service.

There is a small, paved, private land connected to the north end of
the taxi way. You may be allowed to keep your glider in this area if
the land owner permits. The benefit of keeping your glider there is
that you do not need to move it for 1.2 miles between the tie-down and
runway 21 everyday. The land owner was nice enough to let me use the
area this time, so I kept my glider there. However, there are no tie-
down cables and it's hard-surface, so basically you must leave your
glider untied or disassemble and assemble it everyday. The ground
outside of the hard-surface area has lots of tall, wild thistles and
is not suitable for the tie-down in my opinion.

Teton Aviation's main business is scenic rides, and they seemed to
have much higher priority than private glider tows (a scenic ride is
$250 and a 2,000 ft glider tow is $45). If scenic rides are busy, your
tow will be often delayed. I had three tows from Teton Aviation, and
two of them were delayed for 30 minutes, and the other was delayed for
62 minutes. In one case, I had my tow scheduled at 2pm, and the tow
plane showed up around 2:30pm with a Blanik for the scenic ride
scheduled at 2:30pm. I pointed out that my tow was scheduled at 2pm
and I had been waiting for 30 minutes, but they towed up the 2:30pm
scenic ride first, then me. There are no structures or trees to
provide you shades at runway 21 while waiting.

When you take off from runway 21, the line services may or may not be
provided at the discretion of Teton Aviation. I had them for only one
of the three tows. You must push your glider into the runway, take
dollies off, hook up the rope by yourself, and take off with a wing on
the ground. I took off in the 15 kts of wind with gusts without a wing
runner. The tow pilot was considerate enough to request a wing runner
for me over the radio, but Teton Aviation declined the request.
Personally, this was the only glider FBO I’ve ever seen in 23 years
which doesn't provide a wing runner, but I said to myself that I just
landed out on a desert airport and doing an aero-retrieve. The takeoff
was uneventful.

If you have no line services, your dollies will be left where you left
them. The first exit to the taxi way on runway 21 is about 705 yards
from where you take off. After I landed, it was too windy to leave my
glider unattended, so I called Teton Aviation over the radio and asked
them to bring dollies for me. They did so, but I’m not too sure they
always provide this service.

There are quite frequent power plane traffics including business jets.
In the vicinity of the airport, contrary to the "right of way" rules,
Teton Aviation’s operation policy requires you to yield the way to
power planes unless there are safety concerns.

Overall, I didn't feel that it was a suitable place to do cross-
country flights mainly due to their tow scheduling policy. So, I left
there after flying three days. But the Grand Teton range was very
beautiful. I also enjoyed hanging around in Jackson, WY and visiting
Grand Teton National Park.

Thanks,
-Gen

Let's face it: self launch is the future.

On Aug 29, 7:12*pm, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
Gen,

Frank is correct, flights have been flown from Hailey, Mackay and King Mountain Glider Park to the Grand Teton. *Here is the OLC link to a flight flown from King Mountain Glider Park this summer.http://tinyurl.com/KMGP-DRIGGS

Just found Gen's soaring blog. He was at King Mountain mid-August.

Frank

After the fatality on the Grand a few years back and a change in
ownership/management of this FBO visiting soaring pilots went to the
bottom of the economic priority. If there is anything that will bring
in higher revenues, be it hard or soft currency, then those will be
accommodated first. In years past this was a good place to visit. We
were allowed to take gliders on the taxi with cars as long as we had
checkered flags or flashing lights. Yes, we did have to work around
their ride business but they attempted to get us up as fast as
possible recognizing that our tows would usually be less than half or
even a quarter of their rides. The general feeling was one of
accommodation not like now where it is very evident that it is a
pain... That is what happens when one spends big bucks on
infrastructure, capital improvements and the primary business is
personal jets which usually spend big bucks each time they land.

Tom

IDAHO

Oh, years ago they were a SSA business member.....

I participated in King Mountain safari both last year and this year.
In fact, I went to Driggs right after this year’s King Mountain
safari. A few 18 m gliders made round trips to Teton from King
Mountain on the day Wayne mentioned. I was feeling under the weather
that day and didn’t fly, but it’s about 400 km round trip, so I bet
there will be another chance. I haven’t participated in Mackay safari,
but it’s only 20 miles north of King Mountain, so I assume the soaring
experience is the same. I’ve heard of Haily, but as far as I know,
there is no longer a glider operation there.

It’s funny you mentioned King Mountain because I have been pondering
on the vivid contrast of King Mountain and Driggs. King Mountain is a
developing gliderport and this is only their second year. Facility-
wise, They don’t have anything fancy. A campfire range, porta
potties, and a temporary shower are all they have. They don’t have a
nice front desk or big screen TV Teton Aviation has. But they have
great wing runners, and all staffs were enthusiastic to support pilots
and to listen to us to improve their services. For example, they
supplied a cooler full of cold bottles of water near the tow queue,
free of charge, everyday. This is not just for comfort, but because
they know dehydration is one of the common safety hazards for cross
country flights. A few other gliderports do the same. When the safari
ended, many of us voluntarily left them extra money to support the
future improvement of King Mountain Glider Park.

I haven’t been to Salida, but have flown at Durango (130 miles
southwest) and Boulder (100 miles north) in Colorado. They both had
great scenery with beautiful mountains. Durango is a very busy ride-
oriented place and only a few private gliders were flying. But I was
able to do a 500 km on my first flight there, so I believe there is a
good potential for long flights in the area. Boulder has separate ride
operation and a club, and they seemed to be working well. There were
some great pilots in the club. I also enjoyed the city and hiking
trails. It also has an NWS branch and NCAR lab. Both of them offer
tours to the public.

Tom, thanks for sharing interesting history. Maybe I didn’t spend as
much as jet people, but I bough lunch for the CFIG and towpilot who
gave me an introduction on the first day, bought and wore a hat with
their logo, wore fresh and clean shirts whenever I visited the FBO,
and gave tips to the staff who brought oxygen cart to my glider.

I second Gen on his description of King Mountain. This was my 2nd year
participating in their annual safari. The Kangas family enthusiasm is
second to none. In additonal to providing tows and full ground
support, we also had daily briefings with weather briefing and pilot
reports, and pot lucks in the evenings around the campfire. Everyone
gets personal attention. They even collect your spot info in their
registration form to make sure no one will go missing.
And they only charge (very reasonably) for tows and O2. We had 2 tow
planes this year, one from Hamilton, MT and one from Williams, CA.
The weather and scenery is absolutly spectacular. Both years we had
great soaring conditions most of the days. 500-700km flights are very
doable in a good day. I went as far as Yellowstone and Grand Teton to
the east, Glacier National Park to the north and near the Oregon
border west of Boise to the west (some in straight out flights).
I am hoping to go there again next year and whenever they will open
full time.

Ramy


On Aug 30, 5:40*pm, gen wrote:
I participated in King Mountain safari both last year and this year.
In fact, I went to Driggs right after this year’s King Mountain
safari. A few 18 m gliders made round trips to Teton from King
Mountain on the day Wayne mentioned. I was feeling under the weather
that day and didn’t fly, but it’s about 400 km round trip, so I bet
there will be another chance. I haven’t participated in Mackay safari,
but it’s only 20 miles north of King Mountain, so I assume the soaring
experience is the same. I’ve heard of Haily, but as far as I know,
there is no longer a glider operation there.

It’s funny you mentioned King Mountain because I have been pondering
on the vivid contrast of King Mountain and Driggs. King Mountain is a
developing gliderport and this is only their second year. Facility-
wise, They don’t *have anything fancy. A campfire range, porta
potties, and a temporary shower are all they have. They don’t have a
nice front desk or big screen TV Teton Aviation has. But they have
great wing runners, and all staffs were enthusiastic to support pilots
and to listen to us to improve their services. For example, they
supplied a cooler full of cold bottles of water near the tow queue,
free of charge, everyday. This is not just for comfort, but because
they know dehydration is one of the common safety hazards for cross
country flights. *A few other gliderports do the same. When the safari
ended, many of us voluntarily left them extra money to support the
future improvement of King Mountain Glider Park.

I haven’t been to Salida, but have flown at Durango (130 miles
southwest) and Boulder (100 miles north) *in Colorado. They both had
great scenery with beautiful mountains. Durango is a very busy ride-
oriented place and only a few private gliders were flying. But I was
able to do a 500 km on my first flight there, so I believe there is a
good potential for long flights in the area. Boulder has separate ride
operation and a club, and they seemed to be working well. There were
some great pilots in the club. I also enjoyed the city and hiking
trails. It also has an NWS branch and NCAR lab. Both of them offer
tours to the public.

Tom, thanks for sharing interesting history. Maybe I didn’t spend as
much as jet people, but I bough lunch for the CFIG and towpilot who
gave me an introduction on the first day, bought and wore a hat with
their logo, wore fresh and clean shirts whenever I visited the FBO,
and gave tips to the staff who brought oxygen cart to my glider.

Too bad, it used to be a nice location.
I enjoyed taking a friend for a ride in the Blanik in 1991. They ran
the operation out of an old hangar and also had a Slingsby Dart.
The biz-jets used Jackson airport on the other side of the ridge.
Jim

For those of you who are not familiar with the King Mountain Glider Park its' website is http://www.kingmountaingliderpark.com.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

"Ramy" wrote in message ...
I second Gen on his description of King Mountain. This was my 2nd year
participating in their annual safari. The Kangas family enthusiasm is
second to none. In additonal to providing tows and full ground
support, we also had daily briefings with weather briefing and pilot
reports, and pot lucks in the evenings around the campfire. Everyone
gets personal attention. They even collect your spot info in their
registration form to make sure no one will go missing.
And they only charge (very reasonably) for tows and O2. We had 2 tow
planes this year, one from Hamilton, MT and one from Williams, CA.
The weather and scenery is absolutly spectacular. Both years we had
great soaring conditions most of the days. 500-700km flights are very
doable in a good day. I went as far as Yellowstone and Grand Teton to
the east, Glacier National Park to the north and near the Oregon
border west of Boise to the west (some in straight out flights).
I am hoping to go there again next year and whenever they will open
full time.

Ramy


On Aug 30, 5:40 pm, gen wrote:
I participated in King Mountain safari both last year and this year.
In fact, I went to Driggs right after this year’s King Mountain
safari. A few 18 m gliders made round trips to Teton from King
Mountain on the day Wayne mentioned. I was feeling under the weather
that day and didn’t fly, but it’s about 400 km round trip, so I bet
there will be another chance. I haven’t participated in Mackay safari,
but it’s only 20 miles north of King Mountain, so I assume the soaring
experience is the same. I’ve heard of Haily, but as far as I know,
there is no longer a glider operation there.

It’s funny you mentioned King Mountain because I have been pondering
on the vivid contrast of King Mountain and Driggs. King Mountain is a
developing gliderport and this is only their second year. Facility-
wise, They don’t have anything fancy. A campfire range, porta
potties, and a temporary shower are all they have. They don’t have a
nice front desk or big screen TV Teton Aviation has. But they have
great wing runners, and all staffs were enthusiastic to support pilots
and to listen to us to improve their services. For example, they
supplied a cooler full of cold bottles of water near the tow queue,
free of charge, everyday. This is not just for comfort, but because
they know dehydration is one of the common safety hazards for cross
country flights. A few other gliderports do the same. When the safari
ended, many of us voluntarily left them extra money to support the
future improvement of King Mountain Glider Park.

I haven’t been to Salida, but have flown at Durango (130 miles
southwest) and Boulder (100 miles north) in Colorado. They both had
great scenery with beautiful mountains. Durango is a very busy ride-
oriented place and only a few private gliders were flying. But I was
able to do a 500 km on my first flight there, so I believe there is a
good potential for long flights in the area. Boulder has separate ride
operation and a club, and they seemed to be working well. There were
some great pilots in the club. I also enjoyed the city and hiking
trails. It also has an NWS branch and NCAR lab. Both of them offer
tours to the public.

Tom, thanks for sharing interesting history. Maybe I didn’t spend as
much as jet people, but I bough lunch for the CFIG and towpilot who
gave me an introduction on the first day, bought and wore a hat with
their logo, wore fresh and clean shirts whenever I visited the FBO,
and gave tips to the staff who brought oxygen cart to my glider.