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"Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water'"



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 28th 05, 05:03 PM
OtisWinslow
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I'm just dumbfounded that someone would make that flight. What
a sad deal.


Accidents are always a series of mistakes/bad-judgments.

Here's just a few:
1) Poor fuel planning and continuing on with low fuel from Michigan side.
2) Water crossing
3) No floatation devices
4) Night

Sad!!






  #12  
Old April 28th 05, 05:39 PM
Larry Dighera
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:00:17 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote in
::

1) Poor fuel planning and continuing on with low fuel from Michigan side.


Do you have evidence that the aircraft didn't suffer from a fuel leak?


  #13  
Old April 28th 05, 05:45 PM
Jose
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There sure was a lot of irrelevant information requested by the
sherriff... I don't think that finding out what his name is will be all
that helpful in getting a rescue underway... just location, plane type
and color, injuries, and go look for him.

Is there any good reason to waste time asking for his name and such,
when other information (like, since the communications was bad, "say
twice your location") might be more helpful for a quick response?

Surely the sherriff has a callback feature that would ring the cellphone
if contact was lost (which is most likely due to the phone falling into
the lake)

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #14  
Old April 28th 05, 05:49 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Do you have evidence that the aircraft didn't suffer from a fuel leak?


Does that make a difference? The pilot chose a route that was intolerant of
either.


  #15  
Old April 28th 05, 06:12 PM
Larry Dighera
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:31:38 -0400, "Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com
wrote in ::

Here's audio of the ATC starting at
04:45 - http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kmke...26-05-0030.mp3.


What I find disappointing is the late pilot's lack of authoritative
attitude while exercising the duties of Pilot In Command. He called
ATC and confessed his dwindling fuel state only minutes before
ditching. He asked ATC if he should exit the aircraft while it was
sinking. It was as though he was praying instead of thinking.

Why didn't he _TELL_ ATC what he needed, and _request_ that ATC
contact the Coast Guard and despatch a helo to his location? Why
didn't he take _command_ of his situation? From the recordings of his
last VHF and cellular transmissions, it was as if he thought
responsibility for his continuation of life rested in the hands of
others; it was as if he wanted someone else to think of a way to save
him.

Had he immediately confessed his low-fuel situation to ATC, requested
dispatch of emergency rescue craft, fashioned some sort of floatation
device (plastic bag, empty bottle, something...), and made some sort
of survival plan, his chances might have been better.

Anyone who fails to recognize that they are the primary factor in
saving themselves in an emergency situation is doomed.

Condolences to the surviving family members. RIP.
  #16  
Old April 28th 05, 06:19 PM
Larry Dighera
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:49:07 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
t::

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:00:17 -0700, "Matt Barrow" wrote in :

1) Poor fuel planning and continuing on with low fuel from Michigan side.


Do you have evidence that the aircraft didn't suffer from a fuel leak?


Does that make a difference?


A difference? It points out that erroneous conclusions are possible,
and that speculation as to the cause of aircraft mishaps is risky.

The pilot chose a route that was intolerant of either.


Perhaps.

I'm sure you have traversed hostile terrain in your Champ at one time
or another.

  #17  
Old April 28th 05, 06:57 PM
RomeoMike
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Agreed, he did everything wrong, and although he apparently started the
trip with no trepidation (or use of cerebral cortex), maybe it was panic
that in the end froze his trhought processes as he realized that he was
in deep trouble.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:31:38 -0400, "Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com
wrote in ::


Here's audio of the ATC starting at
04:45 - http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kmke...26-05-0030.mp3.



What I find disappointing is the late pilot's lack of authoritative
attitude while exercising the duties of Pilot In Command. He called
ATC and confessed his dwindling fuel state only minutes before
ditching. He asked ATC if he should exit the aircraft while it was
sinking. It was as though he was praying instead of thinking.

Why didn't he _TELL_ ATC what he needed, and _request_ that ATC
contact the Coast Guard and despatch a helo to his location? Why
didn't he take _command_ of his situation? From the recordings of his
last VHF and cellular transmissions, it was as if he thought
responsibility for his continuation of life rested in the hands of
others; it was as if he wanted someone else to think of a way to save
him.

Had he immediately confessed his low-fuel situation to ATC, requested
dispatch of emergency rescue craft, fashioned some sort of floatation
device (plastic bag, empty bottle, something...), and made some sort
of survival plan, his chances might have been better.

Anyone who fails to recognize that they are the primary factor in
saving themselves in an emergency situation is doomed.

Condolences to the surviving family members. RIP.

  #18  
Old April 28th 05, 07:43 PM
Chris
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"RomeoMike" wrote in message
...
Agreed, he did everything wrong, and although he apparently started the
trip with no trepidation (or use of cerebral cortex), maybe it was panic
that in the end froze his trhought processes as he realized that he was in
deep trouble.


And maybe it was the fact that he was only 20 years old.


  #19  
Old April 28th 05, 08:08 PM
Peter R.
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Larry wrote:

A difference? It points out that erroneous conclusions are possible,


and that speculation as to the cause of aircraft mishaps is risky.


What's the risk of speculating the cause of an accident in a Usenet
discussion group? If one makes an ass out of one self, a simple change
of the moniker wipes the slate clean.

Seriously, though, you know that past NTSB statistics are slanted
towards the scenario of a pilot failing to ensure adequete fuel before
a flight. Additionally, the fact that the pilot told ATC he was out
of fuel is illuminating (source: LiveATC's archive of the one-sided
transmissions). How would an inexperienced, solo pilot flying at night
correctly and quickly diagnose a fuel leak while still in the descent?


--
Peter

  #20  
Old April 28th 05, 08:41 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Peter R. wrote:
Ben, would you mind paraphrasing what Mr. Baum said (although I can
certainly guess)? I have been trying to avoid installing RealPlayer
software.



You ought to try Real Alternative. It'll allow you to play those .ram files
without all the spyware.

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...lternative.htm




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


 




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