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visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 1st 09, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 846
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing


admittedly it is an FA18 but it still comfirms classic lift theory

http://www.airshowaction.com/axalp07/axalp07_227.jpg

Stealth Pilot
  #2  
Old August 5th 09, 06:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
4p1e
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

On Aug 1, 7:59*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
admittedly it is an FA18 but it still comfirms classic lift theory

http://www.airshowaction.com/axalp07/axalp07_227.jpg

Stealth Pilot




Stealth - I have posted the site address to
http://eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=251055&page=1 for their
viewing.
Thanks - good stuff.
  #3  
Old August 5th 09, 10:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
wright1902glider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

On Aug 4, 11:05*pm, 4p1e wrote:
On Aug 1, 7:59*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

admittedly it is an FA18 but it still comfirms classic lift theory


Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift". On hot humid days, reducing air pressure enough can cause
condensation to form. Some people say it even causes clouds.

Now before you flame me, remember that I did not say that a wing does
not deflect some air downward (assuming down is the side toward the
gravity). Only that thats not the primary source of "lift". Which of
course has been known to science since two guys stuck a fan in the end
of a box and blew around a bunch of old hacksaw blades.

Harry Frey
  #4  
Old August 6th 09, 12:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
vaughn[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing


"Wright1902glider" wrote in message
...

Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift".


I decided years ago to "stop deciding" and just believe that life comes
from both theories. If you only look at the picture that started this
thread, you will be left with no doubt about classic lift theory, but if you
had spent as many hours as I have at the back end of a glider tow rope, you
would know that the wake of an airplane is strongly deflected (accelerated)
downward. (New airplane pilots learn about wake turbulence from pictures in
books, but glider CFIs must take their students into the real thing on a
daily basis.) Flying a short distance behind a tow plane, I am always
flying in clean air unless I fly considerably *below* the tow plane.

Even though I know better, from inside a glider on tow it sure looks like
an airplane's lift comes from pushing air down.

Vaughn



  #5  
Old August 6th 09, 01:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Dan D[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing



"vaughn" wrote in message ...

"Wright1902glider" wrote in message
...

Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift".


I decided years ago to "stop deciding" and just believe that life comes from both theories. If you only look at the
picture that started this thread, you will be left with no doubt about classic lift theory, but if you had spent as
many hours as I have at the back end of a glider tow rope, you would know that the wake of an airplane is strongly
deflected (accelerated) downward. (New airplane pilots learn about wake turbulence from pictures in books, but glider
CFIs must take their students into the real thing on a daily basis.) Flying a short distance behind a tow plane, I am
always flying in clean air unless I fly considerably *below* the tow plane.

Even though I know better, from inside a glider on tow it sure looks like an airplane's lift comes from pushing air
down.

Vaughn



Hope to do the glider rating thing next year. Sounds like a good add on and BFR resetter...

Equal and opposite reaction, momentum theory, etc. The low pressure on top causes the air to deflect down...and I go up!

Nothing like 720 power turns bumping through the second 360 as you go through your own wake...


  #6  
Old August 6th 09, 01:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Orval Fairbairn[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 530
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

In article
,
Wright1902glider wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:05*pm, 4p1e wrote:
On Aug 1, 7:59*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

admittedly it is an FA18 but it still comfirms classic lift theory


Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift". On hot humid days, reducing air pressure enough can cause
condensation to form. Some people say it even causes clouds.

Now before you flame me, remember that I did not say that a wing does
not deflect some air downward (assuming down is the side toward the
gravity). Only that thats not the primary source of "lift". Which of
course has been known to science since two guys stuck a fan in the end
of a box and blew around a bunch of old hacksaw blades.

Harry Frey


Actually, both models describe the same phenomenon. The Bernoulli
principle explains the detailed mechanics of lift, while the momentum
exchange model explains the end product physics of lift. After all, a
symmetric airfoil generates lift by angle of attack, as does the "flat
plate" airfoil, with zero camber.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.
  #7  
Old August 6th 09, 07:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Alan Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 244
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

In article
,
Wright1902glider wrote:

On Aug 4, 11:05*pm, 4p1e wrote:
On Aug 1, 7:59*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

admittedly it is an FA18 but it still comfirms classic lift theory


Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift". On hot humid days, reducing air pressure enough can cause
condensation to form. Some people say it even causes clouds.

Now before you flame me, remember that I did not say that a wing does
not deflect some air downward (assuming down is the side toward the
gravity). Only that thats not the primary source of "lift". Which of
course has been known to science since two guys stuck a fan in the end
of a box and blew around a bunch of old hacksaw blades.

Harry Frey


You are -- I regret to tell you -- entirely wrong.

Lift is only created if air is deflected downward.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg
  #8  
Old August 6th 09, 12:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 846
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:14:30 -0400, "Dan D"
wrote:



"vaughn" wrote in message ...

"Wright1902glider" wrote in message
...

Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift".


I decided years ago to "stop deciding" and just believe that life comes from both theories. If you only look at the
picture that started this thread, you will be left with no doubt about classic lift theory, but if you had spent as
many hours as I have at the back end of a glider tow rope, you would know that the wake of an airplane is strongly
deflected (accelerated) downward. (New airplane pilots learn about wake turbulence from pictures in books, but glider
CFIs must take their students into the real thing on a daily basis.) Flying a short distance behind a tow plane, I am
always flying in clean air unless I fly considerably *below* the tow plane.

Even though I know better, from inside a glider on tow it sure looks like an airplane's lift comes from pushing air
down.

Vaughn



Hope to do the glider rating thing next year. Sounds like a good add on and BFR resetter...

Equal and opposite reaction, momentum theory, etc. The low pressure on top causes the air to deflect down...and I go up!

Nothing like 720 power turns bumping through the second 360 as you go through your own wake...


although that all happens as you describe it is the air below pushing
you up that lifts the wing.
Stealth Pilot
  #9  
Old August 6th 09, 05:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Jim Logajan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,958
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

Wright1902glider wrote:
Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift".


Well then, you'd better contact NASA and tell them they need to correct the
following:

"Lift occurs when a moving flow of gas is turned by a solid object. The
flow is turned in one direction, and the lift is generated in the opposite
direction, according to Newton's Third Law of action and reaction."

Quoted from:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/lift1.html

"Lift is created by deflecting a flow of air,"

Quoted from:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/momntm.html

On hot humid days, reducing air pressure enough can cause
condensation to form. Some people say it even causes clouds.


Inserting the word "adiabatically" right after the word "pressure" make the
above a more reasonable assertion.

Now before you flame me,


Too late! :-)

remember that I did not say that a wing does
not deflect some air downward (assuming down is the side toward the
gravity). Only that thats not the primary source of "lift". Which of
course has been known to science since two guys stuck a fan in the end
of a box and blew around a bunch of old hacksaw blades.


Different physical situations. Incorrect analogy.
  #10  
Old August 6th 09, 06:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Brian Whatcott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 915
Default visualisation of the lift distribution over a wing

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

Wright1902glider wrote:


Amen! I say to thee, a wing does NOT fly by pushing air down. Rather,
it creates a difference in airspeed between the air on top of the wing
and the air underneath it (relative to gravity or G-forces) which
creates the difference in air pressure which causes what we call
"lift". .....
Harry Frey


Actually, both models describe the same phenomenon. The Bernoulli
principle explains the detailed mechanics of lift, while the momentum
exchange model explains the end product physics of lift. After all, a
symmetric airfoil generates lift by angle of attack, as does the "flat
plate" airfoil, with zero camber.

What he said

Brian W
 




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