If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
The Enlightenment wrote in message ...
I think the FW 190 installation was well studied. It was excellent. A few of the Typhoon/Tempest dervatives also used Germanic style radiators a'la FW190D series and also achieved a speed improvement. The Typhoon always used the chin radiator. It first flew about 9 months after the Fw190 The Typhoon "derivative", the Tempest used wing radiators in the mark I, the fastest, a radial engine in the mark II, a chin radiator in the mark V and a combination of chin and wing radiators for the mark VI. The Fury, the Tempest "derivative" used a radial engine. Hawkers had a good look at the FW190 before the Fury was designed. Nothing like the radiator arrangement used in the FW190D series. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
The Enlightenment wrote in message ...
The 801 had a innovations such as a multipoint direct in cylinder injection of the fuel and completely automatic control of mixture and boost. The pilot only had a throttle to opperate. It's installation in the 190 was excellent: the engine was tightly cowled to improve aerodynamics with airflow being provided by a geared fan opperating at about 3:1 to provide cooling. The exhausts were beautifully installed and provided an ejector effect to induce cooling and thrust. I believe that only one Soviet fighter is regarded to have achieved this level of perfection. Around the cowl was a circular oil tank that was armoured and thus protected the cylinder heads. It was thus a very tough battle damage resistent engine that provided the pilot with a massive piece of armour when going in head on against an american bombers 50s. The trouble is the initial trials were very bad thanks to engine over heating, at one point this threatened to have the entire program cancelled. It also seems the engineers in JG26 did most of the work in coming up with a good fix. Note the oil tank in radials was often armoured, since the oil also acted as a coolant, and a bullet through the oil tank was almost as bad as a bullet through the radiator of an inline engine. The much loved US Gruman Bearcat for instance was inspired and the P47 was built specifically to deal with the 190. The design brief for the Bearcat was heavily into fast climb, to intercept the incoming strikes, using the advances in ship's radar to quickly intercept hostiles. It was the response of the USN to carrier warfare in the Pacific not the FW190. The P-47B was ordered in September 1940 and first flew on 6 May 1941. This was before the RAF encountered the FW190 on 27 September 1941 and over a year before one was captured, in July 1942. The first production P-47B was in December 1941. Rather hard to see the P-47 as built specifically unless the US was given all the information in 1940, and knew despite the major engine cooling problems the FW190A had that the program would be continued. Also note the P-47B was optimised to fight above 20,000 feet, the FW190A below 20,000 feet. It's weakness was that its performance dropped of at altitude. The answer to this was the BMW801T which was turbo supercharged version. Focke-Wulf built some 190s with the turbo supercharger built into the belly as a bulge (unlike the P47 it wouldn't fit in the compact fueselage) but they did not persue the idea perhaps it was inelegant and the turbo metals were in short supply for such as massively produced aircraft. The FW190B was the pressure cabin version of the FW190A, with the BMW801D-2, and a longer span wing, giving around 20% more wing area, this was not turbo supercharged. The FW190C used the DB600 series engines in various combinations, with the turbo supercharger, when fitted, being in a ventral housing, the so called Kangaruh or Kangaroo look. Longer span wings and pressure cabins were also fitted. About 600 of these engines with a very neat intercooler installation ended up on the Ju388L high altitude reconaisence bomber where they were very neatly installed with the intercooler as 5 segments behind the engine. (The Ju388 also had a night fighter version built to deal with B29s attacking at night) The Ju388L was in production for around 6 months in 1944, with around 10 converted from Ju188 and 60 built new. Those 600 engines must have had a very short lifetime if all they did was power the Ju388L. The night fighter version appears to be more prototypes than production. (The Ju 388 seems to have had the same type of periscopic sighting system as used on the A26 invader only it had twin 13.1mm MG in a remote tail turret) However Fock-Wulf decided to install water cooled V12s into the Fw 190 to get high altitude performance. The 432 mph Fw 190D9 had a jumo 213A enigine but the Fw190D11 and Fw190D12 (only 70 entered service) had a Jumo 213E engine with the same two stage intercooler arrangement as the Merlin in the Mustang and could manage 460mph. Be careful here, the later versions of the D series are mainly paper projects or prototypes. And the WWII engines used a water glycol cooling mixture, rather like many modern motor vehicles, hence liquid cooled, not water cooled. The D-10 replaced the fuselage machine guns with a 30mm cannon firing through the propeller spinner. Couple of prototypes The D-11 was a D-9 with the Jumo213F with MW-50, several prototypes built. The D-12 was the ground attack version, the D-10 armament, with an armoured installation of the Jumo 213F, production began in March 1945. It is doubtful any actually entered service. Fw190A/D production in March 1945 is said to be 204, and zero in April. The D-13 with the Jumo213EB and 2 20 mm cannon, 2 prototypes built. The D-14 with the DB603A engine, 2 built. The D-15 with the DB603EB engine, paper project. Oddly for such an engine seems to have been heavily armoured for ground attack and torpedo bombing (they were used by the Soviets after the war for this) Apparently the annular radiators of the German V12s were quite battle damage tollerant as well as aerodynanic. It seems unlikely the designers would put lots of high altitude features into a ground attack version. The same type of engine jumo 213E with more performance ended up in the 475mph TA 152 H0 and TA 152H1 (H-1 had wet fuel tanks in its wooden wings for greater range) as this had very large wings it could not only fly extremely high it could out turn any Allied fighter. The Ta152H-1 had an empty weight of around 8,900 pounds supported by a wing area of 251 square feet, The Spitfire XIV had an empty weight of around 6,600 pounds and wing area of 242 square feet. I doubt the TA152H with its long wings would win a turning contest with a Spitfire XIV except at very high altitudes. Most sources rate the Ta152H series top speed in the 460 to 470mph range, the using MW-50 and GM-1. What is the source that claims the wings were wooden as opposed to metal? You can tell a Fw 190D9 from a Fw 190D11/D12/D13 by the latter lacking cowl guns and having an oval air intage instead of round and using a cannon firing through the propeller boss. One of these (The Fw 190 D13 I think) was to end up with a long barreled Mk 103 30mm cannon as a tank buster. It was this aircraft that I guess would have finaly replaced the Stuka. The D-12 would be the replacement for the G model. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:35:38 +0300, "Jukka O. Kauppinen"
wrote: Cross licensed were not that uncommon, Japan's major transport planes during WWII were license-built DC-2s, DC-3s, and Lockheed Electras. If you've ever seen the combat footage of the Japanese airborne assult on the Dutch oilfields in the Indies (Indonesia), the planes they are jumping from are "Type LO" Electras, built I think by Kawasaki. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
The much loved US Gruman Bearcat for instance was inspired and the P47 was built specifically to deal with the 190. I would say that the Bearcat was inspired by the Hellcat, which was inspired by the Wildcat. As for the P-47, it was an outgrowth of the P-43 which was an outgrowth of the P-35. The XP-47 was ordered in 1939, and the XP-47B with a PW 2800 engine in January 1940. Did the USAAC even know about the FW-190 in January 1940? I would say that the two American fighters were sui generis: The Bigger the Better. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... The Enlightenment wrote in message ... I think the FW 190 installation was well studied. It was excellent. A few of the Typhoon/Tempest dervatives also used Germanic style radiators a'la FW190D series and also achieved a speed improvement. The Typhoon always used the chin radiator. It first flew about 9 months after the Fw190 The Typhoon "derivative", the Tempest used wing radiators in the mark I, the fastest, a radial engine in the mark II, a chin radiator in the mark V and a combination of chin and wing radiators for the mark VI. The Fury, the Tempest "derivative" used a radial engine. Hawkers had a good look at the FW190 before the Fury was designed. Nothing like the radiator arrangement used in the FW190D series. After the war Tempests were built, flown and tested with Germanic anular radiators. This gave about a 20mph speed advantage over the chin installation with the same sabre engine. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Cub Driver" wrote in message ... The much loved US Gruman Bearcat for instance was inspired and the P47 was built specifically to deal with the 190. I would say that the Bearcat was inspired by the Hellcat, which was inspired by the Wildcat. As for the P-47, it was an outgrowth of the P-43 which was an outgrowth of the P-35. The designers of the Bearcat flew to england and inspected (and flew) a captured FW190 and they were inspired by the concept of a small aircraft with a high power to weight ratio and were inspired to do better. Bearcat was a break with the Hellcat concept it was small and powerfull. Watched it on televison and the designers actualy related the story themsleves. Can't remember what program now. The XP-47 was ordered in 1939, and the XP-47B with a PW 2800 engine in January 1940. Did the USAAC even know about the FW-190 in January 1940? I would say that the two American fighters were sui generis: The Bigger the Better. There was some influence of the FW 190 on the P47. Perhaps I am thinking of the P47D. Untill the P47 got water injection a FW190 could outrun it at low altitude. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Expedition sailboat charters www.expeditionsail.com |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:55:50 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote: The XP-47 was ordered in 1939, and the XP-47B with a PW 2800 engine in January 1940. Did the USAAC even know about the FW-190 in January 1940? I'd consider that unlikely, but facts like that have never stopped our nazi loving BS merchant here. I would say that the two American fighters were sui generis: The Bigger the Better. I once read an article where the XP-72 was described as something which would have given AS Yakovlev a massive coronary. greg -- Es ist mein Teil - nein Mein Teil - nein Denn das ist mein Teil - nein Mein Teil - nein |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
The Enlightenment wrote:
After the war Tempests were built, flown and tested with Germanic anular Not to pick too many nits, but would you mind dropping the silly "Germanic"? Hint: it is NOT the same as "German" - actually quite different. -- Mailman -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"The Enlightenment" wrote in message ... "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... The Enlightenment wrote in message ... I think the FW 190 installation was well studied. It was excellent. A few of the Typhoon/Tempest dervatives also used Germanic style radiators a'la FW190D series and also achieved a speed improvement. The Typhoon always used the chin radiator. It first flew about 9 months after the Fw190 The Typhoon "derivative", the Tempest used wing radiators in the mark I, the fastest, a radial engine in the mark II, a chin radiator in the mark V and a combination of chin and wing radiators for the mark VI. The Fury, the Tempest "derivative" used a radial engine. Hawkers had a good look at the FW190 before the Fury was designed. Nothing like the radiator arrangement used in the FW190D series. After the war Tempests were built, flown and tested with Germanic anular radiators. This gave about a 20mph speed advantage over the chin installation with the same sabre engine. As I recall Napier's designed and tested several different types of annular radiator annular radiator for the Sabre and tested it on a Typhoon IB and a Tempest V None were chosen for production. Keith ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
I'm pretty sure there's aphoto in one of Wm. Green's books showing a
test version of the Typhoon using an annular radiator. "Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message ... The Enlightenment wrote in message ... I think the FW 190 installation was well studied. It was excellent. A few of the Typhoon/Tempest dervatives also used Germanic style radiators a'la FW190D series and also achieved a speed improvement. The Typhoon always used the chin radiator. It first flew about 9 months after the Fw190 The Typhoon "derivative", the Tempest used wing radiators in the mark I, the fastest, a radial engine in the mark II, a chin radiator in the mark V and a combination of chin and wing radiators for the mark VI. The Fury, the Tempest "derivative" used a radial engine. Hawkers had a good look at the FW190 before the Fury was designed. Nothing like the radiator arrangement used in the FW190D series. Geoffrey Sinclair Remove the nb for email. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Wanted 5-cylinder B-75 Lawrence radial | Chris Wertman | Home Built | 5 | April 8th 10 02:11 AM |
Help ! SMALL Radial engine | Chris Wertman | Home Built | 12 | July 18th 05 02:46 PM |
Lead Radial Question | Stan Prevost | Instrument Flight Rules | 4 | November 25th 04 06:20 PM |
World War Two Era U.S. Radial Engines (Curtiss and Pratt&Whitney) | Lincoln Brown | Military Aviation | 10 | February 13th 04 04:30 AM |
Help ! SMALL Radial engine | Chris Wertman | Military Aviation | 11 | January 4th 04 08:22 AM |