If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
This press release makes one wonder how hydrogen is superior to other aviation fuels. Do conventional aviation fuels become too viscous in the stratosphere's frigid -58 degree F ambient temperature? ----------------------------------- The Boeing Company http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/index.html Boeing Tests HALE Hydrogen Propulsion System Using Ford-Developed Engine High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) aircraft (shown here in an artist's rendering) http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q4/071024b_pr.html Click image to view Photo Release. ST. LOUIS, Oct. 24, 2007 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA], using a Ford Motor Company-developed hydrogen engine, has successfully tested the hydrogen propulsion system of its High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft. "This test demonstrates the technical readiness of the hydrogen engine system and confirms the capability breakthrough in flight endurance and altitude that could be realized by a variety of military and commercial customers," said Darryl Davis, vice president and general manager, Boeing Advanced Precision Engagement and Mobility Systems. During the test, the engine ran for nearly four days in a controlled chamber at Aurora Flight Sciences in Manassas, Va., including a total of three days that simulated conditions at 65,000 feet. The propulsion system included a multi-stage turbocharged internal combustion engine and its associated subsystems. The Ford engine earned better than expected fuel economy while demonstrating complete airflow and torque control across the engine's operating range. "This simulated flight allows us to showcase the capabilities of Ford's proprietary hydrogen engine technology and the durability of our four-cylinder engines," said Gerhard Schmidt, vice president, Ford Research and Advanced Engineering. "We are very pleased with the results. The gasoline version of this same engine can be found in our Ford Fusion and Escape Hybrid vehicles." The Boeing HALE aircraft is designed to economically maintain persistent presence over a specific ground location from stratospheric altitudes, providing tremendous potential for surveillance and communications applications. The test marked a key step toward proving the essential technical elements are in place for full-scale development. "This test could help convince potential customers that hydrogen-powered aircraft are viable in the near-term," said Boeing Advanced Systems President George Muellner. "This is a substantial step toward providing the persistent intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities our customers desire." Boeing, as HALE's system designer and integrator, is working closely with Aurora Flight Sciences and Ford to develop the aircraft's propulsion system. HALE is designed to stay aloft for more than seven days and carry payloads weighing up to 2,000 pounds. Potential applications include battlefield persistent intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, border observation, port security and telecommunications. The long endurance autonomous aircraft will be a propeller-driven, lightweight structure with a high-aspect-ratio-wing. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
In article ,
Richard Riley wrote: There's more energy available in a pound of liquid hydrogen than in a pound of any conventional hydrocarbon like jet fuel. The LE (Long Endurance) part of HALE is the basic design goal. A pound of LH2 has about 2.6 times as much energy as a pound of gasoline. The temperature at 65k isn't significantly different from 50k - jet fuel would work fine. But when you weigh in with the tanking required to keep the stuff, the net system energy (fuel + tank) gets out of hand. Hydrocarbons are orders of magnitude more dense than LH2 and do not require special containers or special purging of fuel lines to get rid of air, nitrogen and water. LH2 will freeze all of the above and reacts violently with FROX (frozen oxygen). Hydrogen leaks burn clear and hot, too! To purge LH2 lines, you first flush with dry nitrogen, followed by a helium flush, to get rid of the nitrogen, then gaseous H2. It not an inexpensive process, and widespread use would severely impact the world supply of helium. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
In article ,
Richard Riley wrote: On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:49:47 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote: In article , Richard Riley wrote: There's more energy available in a pound of liquid hydrogen than in a pound of any conventional hydrocarbon like jet fuel. The LE (Long Endurance) part of HALE is the basic design goal. A pound of LH2 has about 2.6 times as much energy as a pound of gasoline. The temperature at 65k isn't significantly different from 50k - jet fuel would work fine. But when you weigh in with the tanking required to keep the stuff, the net system energy (fuel + tank) gets out of hand. Then one would expect the Boeing HALE to incorporate an extraordinary lightweight tankage system, wouldn't one? No. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:49:47 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in : In article , Richard Riley wrote: There's more energy available in a pound of liquid hydrogen than in a pound of any conventional hydrocarbon like jet fuel. The LE (Long Endurance) part of HALE is the basic design goal. A pound of LH2 has about 2.6 times as much energy as a pound of gasoline. The temperature at 65k isn't significantly different from 50k - jet fuel would work fine. But when you weigh in with the tanking required to keep the stuff, the net system energy (fuel + tank) gets out of hand. Hydrocarbons are orders of magnitude more dense than LH2 and do not require special containers or special purging of fuel lines to get rid of air, nitrogen and water. LH2 will freeze all of the above and reacts violently with FROX (frozen oxygen). Hydrogen leaks burn clear and hot, too! To purge LH2 lines, you first flush with dry nitrogen, followed by a helium flush, to get rid of the nitrogen, then gaseous H2. It not an inexpensive process, and widespread use would severely impact the world supply of helium. If that's the case, what would be your guess as to why Boeing is considering a hydrogen fueled HALE? |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:49:47 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote in : In article , Richard Riley wrote: There's more energy available in a pound of liquid hydrogen than in a pound of any conventional hydrocarbon like jet fuel. The LE (Long Endurance) part of HALE is the basic design goal. A pound of LH2 has about 2.6 times as much energy as a pound of gasoline. The temperature at 65k isn't significantly different from 50k - jet fuel would work fine. But when you weigh in with the tanking required to keep the stuff, the net system energy (fuel + tank) gets out of hand. Hydrocarbons are orders of magnitude more dense than LH2 and do not require special containers or special purging of fuel lines to get rid of air, nitrogen and water. LH2 will freeze all of the above and reacts violently with FROX (frozen oxygen). Hydrogen leaks burn clear and hot, too! To purge LH2 lines, you first flush with dry nitrogen, followed by a helium flush, to get rid of the nitrogen, then gaseous H2. It not an inexpensive process, and widespread use would severely impact the world supply of helium. If that's the case, what would be your guess as to why Boeing is considering a hydrogen fueled HALE? A niche device with limited production where such things are of minimal concern maybe? -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Boeing Considering Ford Hydrogen Powered Engine For HALE UAV
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:15:17 GMT, wrote in : Larry Dighera wrote: On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:49:47 -0400, Orval Fairbairn wrote in : In article , Richard Riley wrote: There's more energy available in a pound of liquid hydrogen than in a pound of any conventional hydrocarbon like jet fuel. The LE (Long Endurance) part of HALE is the basic design goal. A pound of LH2 has about 2.6 times as much energy as a pound of gasoline. The temperature at 65k isn't significantly different from 50k - jet fuel would work fine. But when you weigh in with the tanking required to keep the stuff, the net system energy (fuel + tank) gets out of hand. Hydrocarbons are orders of magnitude more dense than LH2 and do not require special containers or special purging of fuel lines to get rid of air, nitrogen and water. LH2 will freeze all of the above and reacts violently with FROX (frozen oxygen). Hydrogen leaks burn clear and hot, too! To purge LH2 lines, you first flush with dry nitrogen, followed by a helium flush, to get rid of the nitrogen, then gaseous H2. It not an inexpensive process, and widespread use would severely impact the world supply of helium. If that's the case, what would be your guess as to why Boeing is considering a hydrogen fueled HALE? A niche device with limited production where such things are of minimal concern maybe? With all due respect, are you saying that Boeing choose a hydrogen fueled engine for their HALE, because they are unconcerned with its complexity due to its possible limited production? Of course. How many unmanned aircraft that stay aloft for seven days and fly in the stratosphere do you think there is a market for? They are building something to meet a unique specification, much like a nuclear submarine or a space shuttle, and using technology that will likely never see mass production. Ever seen a nuclear bass boat or a hydrazine powered 172? -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Atomic Hydrogen Fuel | [email protected] | General Aviation | 7 | June 21st 06 12:02 PM |
Powered gliders = powered aircraft for 91.205 | Mark James Boyd | Soaring | 2 | December 12th 04 03:28 AM |
Advice on Ford V-8 Engine Thought | Holger Stephan | Home Built | 3 | February 20th 04 04:04 PM |
Ford V-6 engine work | Corky Scott | Home Built | 19 | August 21st 03 12:04 PM |
Diamond Aircraft on Hydrogen Fuel Cells | Raul Ruiz | Piloting | 1 | July 13th 03 11:27 PM |