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FCC License?
Maybe this has come up before, if so I appologize. I know that we
have had a thread on the need for an airport to have an FCC license. This came up when one of the gliderports was fined for having an expired license. This was useful, and timely, information for other glider ports. So there are now two followup questions; - Does an FCC license for your airport cover the use of handhelds for ground operations such as talking to the winch operator, the wing runner to the guy logging flights on the "board", telling the guy on the mower that someone is landing, etc? I would think that if the communications are operationally necessary, the answer is no a license is not required. - Is an FCC license needed by myself when I am flying my glider? I have been told no, but heard some conflicting information which was more related to corporate pilots. Can someone quote chapter and verse? Thanks, John |
#2
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FCC License?
- Does an FCC license for your airport cover the use of handhelds for ground operations such as talking to the winch operator, the wing runner to the guy logging flights on the "board", telling the guy on the mower that someone is landing, etc? I would think that if the communications are operationally necessary, the answer is no a license is not required. I agree that they are operationally useful/necessary. Assuming that the airport has a valid unicom/multicom license, you can legally uses a handheld radio as follows: 47 CFR 87.345(c) states "Aeronautical utility mobile stations which operate on the airport’s unicom frequency or the frequency 122.900 MHz are authorized only to transmit information relating to safety, such as runway conditions and hazards on the airport. These stations are authorized primarily for monitoring communications from and to aircraft approaching or departing the airport." If you want use a hand held on the ground to tell the tow pilot to take out the slack or ask where the lift is, you will need a license. - Is an FCC license needed by myself when I am flying my glider? I have been told no, but heard some conflicting information which was more related to corporate pilots. No license is required unless you are operating outside of the US. Can someone quote chapter and verse? 87.18 - Station license required. (b) An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC if the aircraft station is not required by statute, treaty, or agreement to which the United States is signatory to carry a radio, and the aircraft station does not make international flights or communications. Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements, procedures, and technical specifications found in this part. |
#3
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FCC License?
Tony - Thanks for the update and "chapter and verse" from the FAA FAR/
AIM. You've got to wonder if the FCC has ever read the FAA documents. Good to hear that I don't need a license unless I travel internationally. I wonder what our US team does when then go to the worlds? I will bet they don't apply for a individual user license. As to the below - It states "...Airport's unicom frequency...". Can I assume that this is any (unicom) frequency that my gliderport is licensed for beyond the 122.9 that is mentioned? In our case we are licensed for 123.3 mhz. 47 CFR 87.345(c) states "Aeronautical utility mobile stations which operate on the airport s unicom frequency or the frequency 122.900 MHz are authorized only to transmit information relating to safety, such as runway conditions and hazards on the airport. These stations are authorized primarily for monitoring communications from and to aircraft approaching or departing the airport." |
#4
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FCC License?
internationally. *I wonder what our US team does when then go to the
worlds? *I will bet they don't apply for a individual user license. Yes we do. And the rest of the mountain of paperwork that worlds requires and threatens to check. John Cochrane. |
#5
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FCC License?
On Dec 30, 2:56*pm, John Cochrane
wrote: internationally. *I wonder what our US team does when then go to the worlds? *I will bet they don't apply for a individual user license. Yes we do. And the rest of the mountain of paperwork that worlds requires and threatens to check. John Cochrane. John - I stand corrected! - John |
#6
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FCC License?
On 12/29/2010 6:20 PM, ContestID67 wrote:
Maybe this has come up before, if so I appologize. I know that we have had a thread on the need for an airport to have an FCC license. This came up when one of the gliderports was fined for having an expired license. This was useful, and timely, information for other glider ports. So there are now two followup questions; - Does an FCC license for your airport cover the use of handhelds for ground operations such as talking to the winch operator, the wing runner to the guy logging flights on the "board", telling the guy on the mower that someone is landing, etc? I would think that if the communications are operationally necessary, the answer is no a license is not required. - Is an FCC license needed by myself when I am flying my glider? I have been told no, but heard some conflicting information which was more related to corporate pilots. Can someone quote chapter and verse? Thanks, John This is an area where the SSA could be very helpful. The current FCC rules, the way I understand them, exempts radios that are used in aircraft (permanently installed and portables) from requiring a license. All other radios need to be licensed. One problem is that the license system for ground based aeronautical radios assumes that the radio is going to be used at a single location, so that the license specifies a particular frequency to be used (usually the CATF frequency). There doesn't seem to be any provision for licensing a portable radio for use by a retrieve crew, where the crew would alternately use 123.3 or whatever local CATF frequency is appropriate for a remote airport that the glider may be landing at. There seems to be a mechanism in the FCC rules to get radios licensed that don't fit into the standard FCC regulatory framework. The SSA should take advantage of this to get a blanket license for all SSA members using ground based radios. Not only would that solve a legal black hole that probably affects the majority of glider pilots at some point or other, but it would also provide a powerful incentive for people to become SSA members, so they can be covered by the blanket license. -- Mike Schumann |
#7
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FCC License?
On Dec 30, 6:38*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote: On 12/29/2010 6:20 PM, ContestID67 wrote: Maybe this has come up before, if so I appologize. *I know that we have had a thread on the need for an airport to have an FCC license. This came up when one of the gliderports was fined for having an expired license. *This was useful, and timely, information for other glider ports. So there are now two followup questions; - Does an FCC license for your airport cover the use of handhelds for ground operations such as talking to the winch operator, the wing runner to the guy logging flights on the "board", telling the guy on the mower that someone is landing, etc? *I would think that if the communications are operationally necessary, the answer is no a license is not required. - Is an FCC license needed by myself when I am flying my glider? *I have been told no, but heard some conflicting information which was more related to corporate pilots. Can someone quote chapter and verse? Thanks, John This is an area where the SSA could be very helpful. *The current FCC rules, the way I understand them, exempts radios that are used in aircraft (permanently installed and portables) from requiring a license. * All other radios need to be licensed. One problem is that the license system for ground based aeronautical radios assumes that the radio is going to be used at a single location, so that the license specifies a particular frequency to be used (usually the CATF frequency). There doesn't seem to be any provision for licensing a portable radio for use by a retrieve crew, where the crew would alternately use 123.3 or whatever local CATF frequency is appropriate for a remote airport that the glider may be landing at. There seems to be a mechanism in the FCC rules to get radios licensed that don't fit into the standard FCC regulatory framework. *The SSA should take advantage of this to get a blanket license for all SSA members using ground based radios. Not only would that solve a legal black hole that probably affects the majority of glider pilots at some point or other, but it would also provide a powerful incentive for people to become SSA members, so they can be covered by the blanket license. -- Mike Schumann- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'm not aware of someone in the SSA structure that is well versed in this. Perhaps you could volunteer your expertise. Steve Northcraft and Cindy Brickner do a lot on the FAA side and no doubt would be happy for help on something like this. Happy New Year UH |
#8
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FCC License?
You can get a license for a mobile ground station (in support of
glider operations) to transmit on a single frequency, i.e. 123.3. I have one. You need a second license if you want to transmit on 123.5. Such mobile ground stations are not allowed, however, to transmit on the CTAF. Lynn Alley "2KA" |
#9
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FCC License?
2KA wrote:
You can get a license for a mobile ground station (in support of glider operations) to transmit on a single frequency, i.e. 123.3. I have one. You need a second license if you want to transmit on 123.5. Such mobile ground stations are not allowed, however, to transmit on the CTAF. Crazy, isn't it? Hand held air band transceivers have been around for a long time but it is only recently that they've become "dirt cheap" and everybody and his brother has one. Case in point - in 1985 I paid almost US$500 for an Icom A20. Today, I earn 3 times as much as I did in '85 and I got an A6 for well under US$300. I suspect that the current communications regs are simply a reflection of the earlier era - at least, I hope so.The reality is that if you briefly and occasionally use a hand held outside of an aircraft, the feds will not come after you - not that I recommend illegal use, mind you. If you repeatedly mis-use a base station, chances are that they will - http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2004/DA-04-3498A1.html , http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2009/DA-09-1258A1.html. Tony, LS6-b "6N", W1DYS |
#10
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FCC License?
Aeronautical utility mobile stations refer pretty specifically to
operation at an airport. Perhaps as important is the section on Aviation Support Stations, because they specifically mention gliders, they allow land and mobile use, including away from the airport, and "Aviation support mobile stations will be assigned 123.300 and 123.500 MHz." This takes into account usage by a crew following or recovering a glider/pilot. My (non-lawyer, prejudiced) reading would say that taking out slack and finding lift would be acceptable under 87.319(b): Title 47: Telecommunication PART 87—AVIATION SERVICES Subpart K—Aviation Support Stations § 87.319 Scope of service. Aviation support stations are used for the following types of operations: (a) Pilot training; (b) Coordination of soaring activities between gliders, tow aircraft and land stations; (c) Coordination of activities between free balloons or lighter-than- air aircraft and ground stations; (d) Coordination between aircraft and aviation service organizations located on an airport concerning the safe and efficient portal-to- portal transit of the aircraft, such as the types of fuel and ground services available; and (e) Promotion of safety of life and property. Subpart K—Aviation Support Stations § 87.323 Frequencies. ..... (b) The frequencies 121.950, 123.300 and 123.500 MHz are available for assignment to aviation support stations used for pilot training, coordination of lighter-than-air aircraft operations, or coordination of soaring or free ballooning activities. Applicants for 121.950 MHz must coordinate their proposal with the appropriate FAA Regional Spectrum Management Office. The application must specify the FAA Region notified and the date notified. Applicants for aviation support land stations may request frequency(ies) based upon their eligibility although the Commission reserves the right to specify the frequency of assignment. Aviation support mobile stations will be assigned 123.300 and 123.500 MHz. However, aviation support mobile stations must operate only on a noninterference basis to communications between aircraft and aviation support land stations. ..... BUT, agreed, a license seems to be required for Aviation Support Stations as well. John On Dec 29, 5:41*pm, Tony V wrote: - Does an FCC license for your airport cover the use of handhelds for ground operations such as talking to the winch operator, the wing runner to the guy logging flights on the "board", telling the guy on the mower that someone is landing, etc? *I would think that if the communications are operationally necessary, the answer is no a license is not required. I agree that they are operationally useful/necessary. Assuming that the airport has a valid unicom/multicom license, you can legally uses a handheld radio as follows: 47 CFR 87.345(c) states "Aeronautical utility mobile stations which operate on the airport s unicom frequency or the frequency 122.900 MHz are authorized only to transmit information relating to safety, such as runway conditions and hazards on the airport. These stations are authorized primarily for monitoring communications from and to aircraft approaching or departing the airport." If you want use a hand held on the ground to tell the tow pilot to take out the slack or ask where the lift is, you will need a license. - Is an FCC license needed by myself when I am flying my glider? *I have been told no, but heard some conflicting information which was more related to corporate pilots. No license is required unless you are operating outside of the US. Can someone quote chapter and verse? 87.18 - Station license required. * *(b) An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC if the aircraft station is not required by statute, treaty, or agreement to which the United States is signatory to carry a radio, and the aircraft station does not make international flights or communications. Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements, procedures, and technical specifications found in this part. |
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