Details on the New SPOT 2

One reason they don't have a charging port might be that it's really
hard to make that charging port waterproof. Can't see it adding more
than a couple of bucks to the building cost.

Ed

On Aug 5, 1:35*pm, Ed Winchester wrote:
One reason they don't have a charging port might be that it's really
hard to make that charging port waterproof. *Can't see it adding more
than a couple of bucks to the building cost.

Ed

They don't have a charging port because they want to use long-shelf
life primary (not rechargeable) battery. If they wanted a rechargeable
battery there is no practical barrier (including weather proof specs)
to them pretty easilly adding that.

Darryl

On Aug 6, 2:35*am, Steve Koerner wrote:
No help Philip. *The help button is reserved for special meaning.

The Help and OK (and the new message button on the Spot2) are
just buttons that send messages. The 'special' meaning is whatever
you want it to be. So repurposing the Help in a one hour tracking
function loses no specialness.

Because Spot intended the OK button to mean OK and the Help button to
mean Help
doesn't actually restrict them to those uses.

You can easily reverse those functions and use the Help to mean you're
flying and
provide tracking, and OK to mean you've landed out and want a
retrieve.

--
Philip Plane

“When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it
means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.”

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:22:04 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Their choice of a primary Li battery is completely understandable given
their assumption the device is mostly for occasional use and an
emergency signaling.

I missed the point that Spot uses Li primary batteries rather than
alkaline. Have you any idea of the capacity of AA and AAA Li cells?

If I was SPOT I'd be looking to charge significantly more for external
power + altitude and other features.

Seems reasonable for altitude, but a bit outrageous for external power -
after all that can be as simple as a rectangular recess moulded into the
case with a couple of nickel-plated pins cast in.

It would be very interesting to know the profile of the average Spot
user, though.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Aug 5, 2:04*pm, Philip wrote:
On Aug 6, 2:35*am, Steve Koerner wrote:

No help Philip. *The help button is reserved for special meaning.

The Help and OK (and the new message button on the Spot2) are
just buttons that send messages. The 'special' meaning is whatever
you want it to be. So repurposing the Help in a one hour tracking
function loses no specialness.

Because Spot intended the OK button to mean OK and the Help button to
mean Help
doesn't actually restrict them to those uses.

You can easily reverse those functions and use the Help to mean you're
flying and
provide tracking, and OK to mean you've landed out and want a
retrieve.

--
Philip Plane

“When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it
means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.”

Yes, I suppose I could install a coo-coo clock in the glider so that
when the bird comes out, its beak will push the help button once every
hour. And then I will hope that all who view my public spot page will
not be confused by the concept that help means OK and OK means help.

On Aug 5, 2:31*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:22:04 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Their choice of a primary Li battery is completely understandable given
their assumption the device is mostly for occasional use and an
emergency signaling.

I missed the point that Spot uses Li primary batteries rather than
alkaline. Have you any idea of the capacity of AA and AAA Li cells?

If I was SPOT I'd be looking to charge significantly more for external
power + altitude and other features.

Seems reasonable for altitude, but a bit outrageous for external power *-
after all that can be as simple as a rectangular recess moulded into the
case with a couple of nickel-plated pins cast in.

It would be very interesting to know the profile of the average Spot
user, though.

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

Martin

Go to http://data.energizer.com and look at the "Lithium primary"
specs.

These are more like the batteries uses in ELT and PLB than normal
rechargeable Li-ion or Li-Po batteries. Strong thanks to SPOT for
going with the Energizer Li batteries and not a proprietary battery. I
wonder if the PLB market could just about get away with using these
instead of charging $100-$200 for a replacement battery pack with ~5
year lift.

Anyhow you can see the significant battery capacity reduction in the
new SPOT messenger. We'll have to see what the pracitcal track
lifetime is with the new model. They have power saving features like
an advanced new GPS chipset, but they are also sending more Globalstar
data.

New SPOT: 3 x AAA Energizer Li Ultimate ~ 3 x 1.2 Ah = 3.6 Ah
Old SPOT: 2 x AA Li Energizer Ultimate ~ 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 Ah
(at any low current draw)

Of course if they were coming out with a product better for tracking
applications, then reducing the track time on the low-end unit might
make marketing sense :-)


Darryl

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:56:21 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:

These are more like the batteries uses in ELT and PLB than normal
rechargeable Li-ion or Li-Po batteries. Strong thanks to SPOT for
going with the Energizer Li batteries and not a proprietary battery. I
wonder if the PLB market could just about get away with using these
instead of charging $100-$200 for a replacement battery pack with ~5
year lift.

Very interesting. The capacity and discharge rate are very higher and the
shelf life is noticeably better than alkaline. The shelf life is hugely
better than LiPoly, which I guess is better for a lot of folks than
remembering to charge it before use.

I would guess that the high discharge rate would be rather useful for
transmit power too.

I just checked the price of a McMurdo battery pack: I take your point
about using COTS batteries. McMurdo prices are fierce - when you can find
an agent who sells replacement batteries.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Aug 5, 2:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

New SPOT: 3 x AAA Energizer Li Ultimate ~ 3 x 1.2 Ah = 3.6 Ah
Old SPOT: 2 x AA Li Energizer Ultimate ~ 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 Ah
(at any low current draw)


Are you saying the cells are in parallel in both units? If they are
in series the capacity is the same for one cell as for 2 or 3 except
that the 3 cell unit may run at higher current because of the
increased voltage and have even lower battery life.

Andy

On Aug 5, 4:58*pm, Andy wrote:
On Aug 5, 2:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

New SPOT: 3 x AAA Energizer Li Ultimate ~ 3 x 1.2 Ah = 3.6 Ah
Old SPOT: 2 x AA Li Energizer Ultimate ~ 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 Ah
(at any low current draw)

Are you saying the cells are in parallel in both units? *If they are
in series the capacity is the same for one cell as for 2 or 3 except
that the 3 cell unit may run at higher current because of the
increased voltage and have even lower battery life.

Andy

No I am summing battery capacity and ignoring voltage. If you want
nominal Watt.h then multiply by 1.5 volts. To first order it does not
matter how the batteries are configured. LDO regulators/charge pumps
have relatively low loss and will be used internally to shift
voltages,,and I assume they are not completely incompetent on basic
power supply engineering.

Darryl
Darryl

On Aug 5, 6:27*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:58*pm, Andy wrote:

On Aug 5, 2:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

New SPOT: 3 x AAA Energizer Li Ultimate ~ 3 x 1.2 Ah = 3.6 Ah
Old SPOT: 2 x AA Li Energizer Ultimate ~ 2 x 3.0 = 6.0 Ah
(at any low current draw)

Are you saying the cells are in parallel in both units? *If they are
in series the capacity is the same for one cell as for 2 or 3 except
that the 3 cell unit may run at higher current because of the
increased voltage and have even lower battery life.

Andy

No I am summing battery capacity and ignoring voltage. If you want
nominal Watt.h then multiply by 1.5 volts. To first order it does not
matter how the batteries are configured. *LDO regulators/charge pumps
have relatively low loss and will be used internally to shift
voltages,,and *I assume they are not completely incompetent on basic
power supply engineering.

Darryl
Darryl

If one cell has a capacity of 1 amp hour then 1000 of those cells in
series still have a capacity of 1 amp hour. Do you disagree with
that basic concept?

Andy