If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:58:02 -0400, "Morgans" wrote: "David G. Nagel" wrote Hydro and it's problems. Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting, and has the advantage of helping to control floods. Lot of ecological side effects. Good for short term flood control, but may cause problems long term. A lot depends on the area where the dam is located. What sort of "problems"? |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
Blocking fish that need to swim upstream to spawn, destroying upstream
habitats by submergence, forcing subsistence farmers off their land and moving them into overcrowded and polluted cities... -- Best Regards, Mike http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel A frog in a well does not know the great sea. "Matt Barrow" wrote in message news "Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:58:02 -0400, "Morgans" wrote: "David G. Nagel" wrote Hydro and it's problems. Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting, and has the advantage of helping to control floods. Lot of ecological side effects. Good for short term flood control, but may cause problems long term. A lot depends on the area where the dam is located. What sort of "problems"? |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
On 2007-10-21 14:58:02 -0700, "Morgans" said:
"David G. Nagel" wrote Hydro and it's problems. Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting, and has the advantage of helping to control floods. Here in the west there is considerable pressure to dismantle the dams already in place. They are being blamed for weak salmon runs (as if over-fishing and the recovery in the seal and sea lion population have had nothing to do with it), concentration of heavy metals near the dams, flooding of "critical habitat," and just about every other sin people can think of. There are environmentalists who believe that the worst possible thing that could happen to the earth would be for someone to discover a cheap, non-polluting source of energy. -- Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
These are the same people who think that we should get rid of all the people
of the world except for a few hundred of their fellow believers. "C J Campbell" wrote in message news:200710240644108930-christophercampbell@hotmailcom... On 2007-10-21 14:58:02 -0700, "Morgans" said: "David G. Nagel" wrote Hydro and it's problems. Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting, and has the advantage of helping to control floods. Here in the west there is considerable pressure to dismantle the dams already in place. They are being blamed for weak salmon runs (as if over-fishing and the recovery in the seal and sea lion population have had nothing to do with it), concentration of heavy metals near the dams, flooding of "critical habitat," and just about every other sin people can think of. There are environmentalists who believe that the worst possible thing that could happen to the earth would be for someone to discover a cheap, non-polluting source of energy. -- Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
"Mike Spera" wrote: If I recall the article I read a few years back correctly, conventional glass covered solar panels require more energy to make than they will ever produce in their entire lives. Anyone have any data? http://jupiter.clarion.edu/~jpearce/.../netenergy.pdf ABSTRACT A number of detailed studies on the energy requirements on the three types of photovoltaic (PV) materials, which make up the majority of the active solar market: single crystal,polycrystalline, and amorphous silicon were reviewed. It was found that modern PV cells based on these silicon technologies pay for themselves in terms of energy in a few years (1-5 years). They thus generate enough energy over their lifetimes to reproduce themselves many times (6-31 reproductions)depending on what type of material, balance of system, and the geographic location of the system. It was found that regardless of material, built-in PV systems are a superior ecological choice to centralized PV plants. Finally, the results indicate that efficiency plays a secondary role to embodied energy in theoverall net energy production of modern solar cells. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
"Mike Noel" wrote in message . .. Blocking fish that need to swim upstream to spawn, destroying upstream habitats by submergence, forcing subsistence farmers off their land and moving them into overcrowded and polluted cities... -- Best Regards, Mike Yes, I suppose floods are not THAT bad...especially when the Feds can then bail them out. Enjoy your futures. http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel A frog in a well does not know the great sea. "Matt Barrow" wrote in message news "Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:58:02 -0400, "Morgans" wrote: "David G. Nagel" wrote Hydro and it's problems. Problems? What problems? Last I checked, hydro was clean, non polluting, and has the advantage of helping to control floods. Lot of ecological side effects. Good for short term flood control, but may cause problems long term. A lot depends on the area where the dam is located. What sort of "problems"? |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
In article ,
Morgans wrote: "Edward A. Falk" wrote ... With solar panels on the roof to charge it, it becomes pretty green. Unless you park it for a few weeks between uses, solar cells don't come close to providing enough power to make it a viable charging option. Ooops. My bad. I meant the roof of my house. -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize GeneralAviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
In article ,
Mike Spera wrote: If I recall the article I read a few years back correctly, conventional glass covered solar panels require more energy to make than they will ever produce in their entire lives. Anyone have any data? Energy payback is about a year. They have an official lifetime of 30 years*, so it's a 30-1 energy profit over their lifetimes.. This is about on par with oil pumped from the mid east and better than anything else. The worst is ethanol with a 1-1 energy profit. (*that 30-year number is all the manufacturers are willing to guarantee. I'm told that the actual number is closer to 250.) -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message ... In article , Morgans wrote: "Edward A. Falk" wrote ... With solar panels on the roof to charge it, it becomes pretty green. Unless you park it for a few weeks between uses, solar cells don't come close to providing enough power to make it a viable charging option. Ooops. My bad. I meant the roof of my house. -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ So you charge it at night from the solar panels? Or perhaps you charge batteries in the house on good weather days, and then transfer to your car at night? Sunlight (with losses) Solar panel on house (with losses) Battery in house (with losses) Battery in car (with losses) motor. This is pretty green? How many good weather days will it take to drive to work once? Al G |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize GeneralAviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil
If I recall the article I read a few years back correctly, conventional glass covered solar panels require more energy to make than they will ever produce in their entire lives. Anyone have any data? http://jupiter.clarion.edu/~jpearce/.../netenergy.pdf ABSTRACT A number of detailed studies on the energy requirements on the three types of photovoltaic (PV) materials, which make up the majority of the active solar market: single crystal,polycrystalline, and amorphous silicon were reviewed. It was found that modern PV cells based on these silicon technologies pay for themselves in terms of energy in a few years (1-5 years). They thus generate enough energy over their lifetimes to reproduce themselves many times (6-31 reproductions)depending on what type of material, balance of system, and the geographic location of the system. It was found that regardless of material, built-in PV systems are a superior ecological choice to centralized PV plants. Finally, the results indicate that efficiency plays a secondary role to embodied energy in theoverall net energy production of modern solar cells. Interesting, but this study readily admits in both paragraphs under "Introduction" that total LCA (life cycle analysis) for the gathering/mining of the raw materials, transportation of all materials, entire production of the cells, glass panels, metal frames, batteries, wiring, electronics, and disposal/recycling of all components is too difficult and that each individual system would have to be quantified independently. Thus, their conclusions above are based only on "Net Energy Analysis" (the study of only the PV cells themselves). I would like to believe there is a solution to the energy problem. Not sure yet if PV is it. Thanks for the info and research. It was interesting. Mike |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
My Modest Proposal to End Global Warming, Revitalize General Aviation, and End Our Dependence on Foreign Oil | Gene Seibel | Piloting | 58 | November 2nd 07 04:50 AM |
I have an opinion on global warming! | Jim Logajan | Piloting | 89 | April 12th 07 12:56 PM |
Aviation Conspiracy: CBS Spotlights Aviation's Effect On Global Warming!!! | Free Speaker | General Aviation | 1 | August 3rd 06 07:24 PM |
Proposal For A New Rec.Aviation Newsgroup. (WAS: McCain in '08) | Larry Dighera | Instrument Flight Rules | 54 | July 24th 06 08:32 AM |
House proposal to restrict general aviation | C J Campbell | Piloting | 20 | March 3rd 04 02:37 AM |