Open & !8M Albert Lea USA # 711 reporting

John, I'm curious: In what way do you think the line finish (as
opposed to a 500' @ one mile, for example) contributed to the scary
landings?

You need to ask why it's harder to sequence a lot of gliders arriving
midfield at 50 feet, than it is to sequence a lot of gliders arriving
1 mile away at 500 feet? This is not rocket science.

Let's not start the finish wars again. Or we could just do it by
numbers, like the old joke about prisoners.

John Cochrane

You need to ask why it's harder to sequence a lot of gliders arriving
midfield at 50 feet, than it is to sequence a lot of gliders arriving
1 mile away at 500 feet? This is not rocket science.

John Cochrane

My point was, the airfield arrangement is probably a much more
critical factor in landing safety than the finish type. As you put it
- it's not rocket science.

It's airmanship, actually.

Cheers,

Kirk

My point was, the airfield arrangement is probably a much more
critical factor in landing safety than the finish type. As you put it
- it's not rocket science.

It's airmanship, actually.


Yes. I'm not rabidly for or against any finish type. If you have a
huge field, lots of surrounding places to land, no power traffic, an
assigned task, and not too many gliders, go ahead and have fun with a
line. With a restricted airport, bad surrounding terrain, many gliders
arriving from different directions, and non-contest traffic, a high
finish minimum and a circle are probably good ideas.

Part -- most? -- of airmanship though is knowing there are limits and
avoiding the situation all together. Having to do too many things at
the same time, too low and too slow eventually overcomes the abilities
of the best pilot among us. The guy who thinks "I've got great
airmanship, I can finish with 4 gliders at 50 feet and 70 knots and
all land on one runway with downwind rollers" may find himself in a
spot of trouble eventually

John Cochrane BB

On Jun 8, 1:34 pm, BB wrote:
My point was, the airfield arrangement is probably a much more
critical factor in landing safety than the finish type. As you put it
- it's not rocket science.

It's airmanship, actually.

Yes. I'm not rabidly for or against any finish type. If you have a
huge field, lots of surrounding places to land, no power traffic, an
assigned task, and not too many gliders, go ahead and have fun with a
line. With a restricted airport, bad surrounding terrain, many gliders
arriving from different directions, and non-contest traffic, a high
finish minimum and a circle are probably good ideas.

Part -- most? -- of airmanship though is knowing there are limits and
avoiding the situation all together. Having to do too many things at
the same time, too low and too slow eventually overcomes the abilities
of the best pilot among us. The guy who thinks "I've got great
airmanship, I can finish with 4 gliders at 50 feet and 70 knots and
all land on one runway with downwind rollers" may find himself in a
spot of trouble eventually

John Cochrane BB

I totally agree - it's the fact that the impact of a poor choice of
contest location isn't discussed very much in the context of contest
safety that surprises me a little (NOTE: I'm absolutely NOT inferring
that Albert Lea is a dangerous place to have a contest!).

Having never flown at Albert Lea, I'm not familiar with the airport
layout, so can't really comment on the appropriateness of a line vs
circle finish at that specific location.

I have flown (and raced) at other fields that can be easily
overwhelmed regardless of the finish used - when you are all on final
at the same time, how you got there is a bit immaterial - if you are
all at 500 ft at one mile at the same time, it's still going to be
sporty on final!

I guess we just need bigger glider fields!

Kirk

Why not locate the 'Line' (if that is what people want) well away from
the runway.... about a mile should seperate these two distinct
functions( finishing and landing).

Bob


On Jun 8, 2:34 pm, BB wrote:
My point was, the airfield arrangement is probably a much more
critical factor in landing safety than the finish type. As you put it
- it's not rocket science.

It's airmanship, actually.

Yes. I'm not rabidly for or against any finish type. If you have a
huge field, lots of surrounding places to land, no power traffic, an
assigned task, and not too many gliders, go ahead and have fun with a
line. With a restricted airport, bad surrounding terrain, many gliders
arriving from different directions, and non-contest traffic, a high
finish minimum and a circle are probably good ideas.

Part -- most? -- of airmanship though is knowing there are limits and
avoiding the situation all together. Having to do too many things at
the same time, too low and too slow eventually overcomes the abilities
of the best pilot among us. The guy who thinks "I've got great
airmanship, I can finish with 4 gliders at 50 feet and 70 knots and
all land on one runway with downwind rollers" may find himself in a
spot of trouble eventually

John Cochrane BB

Why not locate the 'Line' (if that is what people want) well away from
the runway.... about a mile should seperate these two distinct
functions( finishing and landing).

Bob

The finish circle does exactly what you suggest -- finish (at 500
feet) about a mile away from where everyone is landing.

A 50 foot line one mile away from landings might not work so well. You
want people to finish at 50 feet and 70 knots over the freeway or over
the housing development?

John Cochrane