INSURANCE, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT

Recent tragedies will certainly bring insurance rates and coverage into the spotlight once again. IMHO things will change not only in cost but coverage as well. Underwriters cannot continue to pay out high amounts for such a small population of their overall policies. I foresee changes coming to the glider community in terms the total value that certain ships can be covered for hull coverage and possibly the terms of use that will determine what to expect from a certain type event.
Major payouts continue that force the underwriter to raise coverage cost across the board, gliders and towplanes included. I can see coverage changing for the future that may include activity stipulations and certain limits being placed on glider types and values. Risk factors will certainly come into the equation, possibly geographical stipulations.
A considerable number of tragic accidents are being perpetrated within the high experience segment of glider and tow pilots alike. As for the clubs and commercial operations, it is a cost that continues to increase.

Just brainstorming and my apologies if this seems insensitive, but I've been thinking that in the interest of keeping premiums affordable, I would accept an insurance policy that voided my hull coverage if I died in a flying accident. That feature would reduce insurance payouts.

The primary reason that I have glider insurance is the liability payout should I injure someone else on the ground. I would feel obligated to compensate the injured party so 'asset sheltering' would not work for me. I would accept a liability only policy.

The weak secondary reason that I have insurance is to replace a totaled glider, though I would probably quit flying altogether if I totaled my glider while flying. I'd want to get another glider if my glider were totaled by a wind storm or highway accident.

Some clubs are electing to self-insure the hull value of ships valued under $15-30k... and saving a lot of money by doing so. Having said that, it's imperative club's adequately fund a reserve fun to pay for major losses and/or replace their fleet over time.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-6, Christopher Schrader wrote:
Some clubs are electing to self-insure the hull value of ships valued under $15-30k... and saving a lot of money by doing so. Having said that, it's imperative club's adequately fund a reserve fun to pay for major losses and/or replace their fleet over time.

There are clubs where members are required or recommended to carry renter/non-owner insurance to operate club gliders.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:01:19 AM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Recent tragedies will certainly bring insurance rates and coverage into the spotlight once again. IMHO things will change not only in cost but coverage as well. Underwriters cannot continue to pay out high amounts for such a small population of their overall policies. I foresee changes coming to the glider community in terms the total value that certain ships can be covered for hull coverage and possibly the terms of use that will determine what to expect from a certain type event.
Major payouts continue that force the underwriter to raise coverage cost across the board, gliders and towplanes included. I can see coverage changing for the future that may include activity stipulations and certain limits being placed on glider types and values. Risk factors will certainly come into the equation, possibly geographical stipulations.
A considerable number of tragic accidents are being perpetrated within the high experience segment of glider and tow pilots alike. As for the clubs and commercial operations, it is a cost that continues to increase.

Our club is looking at our insurance premiums very carefully. Would like to hear from clubs who are 'self insuring' their gliders up to 30k value.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 9:58:41 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:01:19 AM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Recent tragedies will certainly bring insurance rates and coverage into the spotlight once again. IMHO things will change not only in cost but coverage as well. Underwriters cannot continue to pay out high amounts for such a small population of their overall policies. I foresee changes coming to the glider community in terms the total value that certain ships can be covered for hull coverage and possibly the terms of use that will determine what to expect from a certain type event.
Major payouts continue that force the underwriter to raise coverage cost across the board, gliders and towplanes included. I can see coverage changing for the future that may include activity stipulations and certain limits being placed on glider types and values. Risk factors will certainly come into the equation, possibly geographical stipulations.
A considerable number of tragic accidents are being perpetrated within the high experience segment of glider and tow pilots alike. As for the clubs and commercial operations, it is a cost that continues to increase.

Our club is looking at our insurance premiums very carefully. Would like to hear from clubs who are 'self insuring' their gliders up to 30k value.

Most, if not all, require members to carry renter/non-owner insurance coverage which raises the cost of chapter membership by several hundred per year.. Some have had tiers (say $15,000) for pilots that are only flying the 2-33 and 1-26 and 1-34 and a second tier for pilots that will fly the glass two-seater and a glass single seater.

http://nevadasoaring.com/insurance/ is one example.

Some of the others have disappeared behind member walls, but you might contact Texas Soaring Association, where there are a mixed of insured and self-insured hulls and a rather high member deductible ($3,000 last time I checked). However, I believe that was also the total exposure for a member flying a chapter ship, so renter/non-owner coverage of that amount was up to the member.

Chicago Glider Council has a different liability plan and may possibly self insure their hulls. Their web site doesn't mention anything about insurance and the fees pages is woefully out of date, so hard to say. http://www.chicagogliderclub.org/ind...-02-13-24/fees

I spoke with the former owner of a commercial operation today and he sometimes carried hull insurance and sometimes self-insured, requiring renter/non-owners to carry coverage. Renter insurance is pretty much required by most.. SoaringNV had a $30,000 requirement at one point, but nothing on the web site since it changed ownership but their renter agreement is pretty clear who is responsible for damages.

Unless something's changed, private owners with the SSA Group Plan are insured for rentals up to the insured hull value of their gliders. No idea if that amount can be boosted with a nominal additional charge.

Frank Whiteley

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:29:32 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
Just brainstorming and my apologies if this seems insensitive, but I've been thinking that in the interest of keeping premiums affordable, I would accept an insurance policy that voided my hull coverage if I died in a flying accident. That feature would reduce insurance payouts.

The primary reason that I have glider insurance is the liability payout should I injure someone else on the ground. I would feel obligated to compensate the injured party so 'asset sheltering' would not work for me. I would accept a liability only policy.

The weak secondary reason that I have insurance is to replace a totaled glider, though I would probably quit flying altogether if I totaled my glider while flying. I'd want to get another glider if my glider were totaled by a wind storm or highway accident.

You make valid points regarding coverage and incurred damages. I would like to get the insurance pay out for damages comparing club to private ships for the last 24 months I think it would be very telling.
Our property owner at TCSC requires us to have a one million liability as provision for operating . Individuals are asked to do the same for private ships. I carry the same liability on the Pawnee's. Bob

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 12:25:40 AM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 9:58:41 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:01:19 AM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Recent tragedies will certainly bring insurance rates and coverage into the spotlight once again. IMHO things will change not only in cost but coverage as well. Underwriters cannot continue to pay out high amounts for such a small population of their overall policies. I foresee changes coming to the glider community in terms the total value that certain ships can be covered for hull coverage and possibly the terms of use that will determine what to expect from a certain type event.
Major payouts continue that force the underwriter to raise coverage cost across the board, gliders and towplanes included. I can see coverage changing for the future that may include activity stipulations and certain limits being placed on glider types and values. Risk factors will certainly come into the equation, possibly geographical stipulations.
A considerable number of tragic accidents are being perpetrated within the high experience segment of glider and tow pilots alike. As for the clubs and commercial operations, it is a cost that continues to increase.

Our club is looking at our insurance premiums very carefully. Would like to hear from clubs who are 'self insuring' their gliders up to 30k value.

Most, if not all, require members to carry renter/non-owner insurance coverage which raises the cost of chapter membership by several hundred per year. Some have had tiers (say $15,000) for pilots that are only flying the 2-33 and 1-26 and 1-34 and a second tier for pilots that will fly the glass two-seater and a glass single seater.

http://nevadasoaring.com/insurance/ is one example.

Some of the others have disappeared behind member walls, but you might contact Texas Soaring Association, where there are a mixed of insured and self-insured hulls and a rather high member deductible ($3,000 last time I checked). However, I believe that was also the total exposure for a member flying a chapter ship, so renter/non-owner coverage of that amount was up to the member.

Chicago Glider Council has a different liability plan and may possibly self insure their hulls. Their web site doesn't mention anything about insurance and the fees pages is woefully out of date, so hard to say. http://www.chicagogliderclub.org/ind...-02-13-24/fees

I spoke with the former owner of a commercial operation today and he sometimes carried hull insurance and sometimes self-insured, requiring renter/non-owners to carry coverage. Renter insurance is pretty much required by most. SoaringNV had a $30,000 requirement at one point, but nothing on the web site since it changed ownership but their renter agreement is pretty clear who is responsible for damages.

Unless something's changed, private owners with the SSA Group Plan are insured for rentals up to the insured hull value of their gliders. No idea if that amount can be boosted with a nominal additional charge.

Frank Whiteley

Does that SSA Group Insurance cover club members when they fly a club glider, i.e., does it count as a "rental"?

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 8:18:31 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 12:25:40 AM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 9:58:41 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 5:01:19 AM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Recent tragedies will certainly bring insurance rates and coverage into the spotlight once again. IMHO things will change not only in cost but coverage as well. Underwriters cannot continue to pay out high amounts for such a small population of their overall policies. I foresee changes coming to the glider community in terms the total value that certain ships can be covered for hull coverage and possibly the terms of use that will determine what to expect from a certain type event.
Major payouts continue that force the underwriter to raise coverage cost across the board, gliders and towplanes included. I can see coverage changing for the future that may include activity stipulations and certain limits being placed on glider types and values. Risk factors will certainly come into the equation, possibly geographical stipulations.
A considerable number of tragic accidents are being perpetrated within the high experience segment of glider and tow pilots alike. As for the clubs and commercial operations, it is a cost that continues to increase.

Our club is looking at our insurance premiums very carefully. Would like to hear from clubs who are 'self insuring' their gliders up to 30k value.

Most, if not all, require members to carry renter/non-owner insurance coverage which raises the cost of chapter membership by several hundred per year. Some have had tiers (say $15,000) for pilots that are only flying the 2-33 and 1-26 and 1-34 and a second tier for pilots that will fly the glass two-seater and a glass single seater.

http://nevadasoaring.com/insurance/ is one example.

Some of the others have disappeared behind member walls, but you might contact Texas Soaring Association, where there are a mixed of insured and self-insured hulls and a rather high member deductible ($3,000 last time I checked). However, I believe that was also the total exposure for a member flying a chapter ship, so renter/non-owner coverage of that amount was up to the member.

Chicago Glider Council has a different liability plan and may possibly self insure their hulls. Their web site doesn't mention anything about insurance and the fees pages is woefully out of date, so hard to say. http://www.chicagogliderclub.org/ind...-02-13-24/fees

I spoke with the former owner of a commercial operation today and he sometimes carried hull insurance and sometimes self-insured, requiring renter/non-owners to carry coverage. Renter insurance is pretty much required by most. SoaringNV had a $30,000 requirement at one point, but nothing on the web site since it changed ownership but their renter agreement is pretty clear who is responsible for damages.

Unless something's changed, private owners with the SSA Group Plan are insured for rentals up to the insured hull value of their gliders. No idea if that amount can be boosted with a nominal additional charge.

Frank Whiteley

Does that SSA Group Insurance cover club members when they fly a club glider, i.e., does it count as a "rental"?

Costello, as SSA broker of record, offers club insurance, which insures both liability and hulls. Other underwriters will insure but essentially as commercial operations. The SSA underwriter will also insure clubs, but without some of the features of the SSA Group Plan. Member-member liability is one of those features.

There are a lot of nuances and variations in the business models of SSA Clubs and Chapters, including whether they are public benefit or mutual benefit organizations, typically charitable or recreational, or businesses. There are a few clubs that have no SSA affiliation. At least one large one has returned as a chapter due to the changing insurance market.

Some clubs and chapters include glider use as a member benefit at no additional cost. It might prove interesting to claim a rental, if there were no fees, so insuring against a high deductible, who knows? Maybe someone has tested this.

Although not specific to your question but for consideration, I would suggest that this is would be almost certainly inappropriate in a public benefit scenario, especially so if and when differential dues are involved. One public benefit chapter allows members who pre-pay $1500 against expenses at the beginning of the year to pay lower dues than members who pay as they fly. The 'ROI' is 20%. That said, it's unclear if unused amounts become donations at the end of the year. Not matter how you slice it, this is actually 'private inurement' which is a definite no-no in tax exempt organizations.

Overall, I think glider flight charges are best put into sinking funds for fleet upgrade, expansion, or replacement. Annuals, insurance, property taxes, utilities, programs, and other fixed funds/expenses should set the basis for dues.

Frank Whiteley