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Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 10th 20, 08:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Default Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

TSB Canada Report

https://bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r.../a19w0099.html
  #2  
Old February 10th 20, 09:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

What a tragic waste of lives.Â* The report mentioned that both occupants
of the glider were wearing parachutes, but there's no mention of any
attempt to bail out.Â* Is that an oversight in the report or did they
simply not try to get out?

On 2/10/2020 12:32 PM, George Haeh wrote:
TSB Canada Report

https://bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r.../a19w0099.html


--
Dan, 5J
  #3  
Old February 10th 20, 10:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Default Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

My guess is that they didn't have enough time to get out with the forces involved after the tail came off. The report does not mention whether the canopies were released.
  #4  
Old February 11th 20, 01:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Default Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

In 2003 I lost my fin and tailplane in a midair. I was able to get out very easily. I and the pilot of the other glider involved were very lucky. We both used our parachutes and were completely uninjured. I would not speculate on why the pilots of this K21 were unable to get out and am surprised that the report did not address that aspect. Would any of you ground a tug because the Flarm was giving problems?
  #5  
Old February 11th 20, 01:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 5:19:52 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
In 2003 I lost my fin and tailplane in a midair. I was able to get out very easily. I and the pilot of the other glider involved were very lucky. We both used our parachutes and were completely uninjured. I would not speculate on why the pilots of this K21 were unable to get out and am surprised that the report did not address that aspect. Would any of you ground a tug because the Flarm was giving problems?


It sounds like they were about 2000" AGL. I would think that would give enough time to egress, assuming the G-forces were not pinning you in the seat, but it wouldn't be a lot of time. You would have to get out fast.
  #6  
Old February 11th 20, 11:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim White[_3_]
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Default _Glider_Towplane_Mid-air_–_TP_PowerFLARM_Inop

Without a tail would the g forces not be 0 or even negative?. I would
expect the first result to be a bunt to inverted. Just wondering

  #7  
Old February 11th 20, 01:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathon May
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Default _Glider_Towplane_Mid-air_–_TP_PowerFLARM_Inop

At 10:19 11 February 2020, Jim White wrote:
Without a tail would the g forces not be 0 or even negative?. I

woul
expect the first result to be a bunt to inverted. Just wondering


I once saw a crash through loss of elevator.
The time from loss of elevator to impact will have been less than
10seconds.
Horrible but quick.


  #8  
Old February 11th 20, 02:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default _Glider_Towplane_Mid-air_–_TP_PowerFLARM_Inop

On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 4:45:04 AM UTC-8, Jonathon May wrote:
At 10:19 11 February 2020, Jim White wrote:
Without a tail would the g forces not be 0 or even negative?. I

woul
expect the first result to be a bunt to inverted. Just wondering


I once saw a crash through loss of elevator.
The time from loss of elevator to impact will have been less than
10seconds.
Horrible but quick.


I saw a glider loose the horizontal in the landing flare, 20 some years ago.. It pitched up and rolled left before the wing dung in and spun the aircraft around nearly hitting me. The pilot is still flying nearly every Saturday, and is one of the local "heroes". Funny side note, I watched that landing as the weekend before that same pilot had ground looped and nearly hit me as I was putting my bird back in box.
  #9  
Old February 11th 20, 04:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Waveguru
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Default _Glider_Towplane_Mid-air_–_TP_PowerFLARM_Inop

This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane makes a left turn and the glider make a right and they come around and collide. I changed the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight right turn, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least one of the pair of planes can more easily maintain separation. When both planes make a 360° turn, neither of them can see the other. This kind of accident is the result.

Boggs
  #10  
Old February 11th 20, 06:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default _Glider_Towplane_Mid-air_–_TP_PowerFLARM_Inop

Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 2/11/2020 5:40 AM:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 4:45:04 AM UTC-8, Jonathon May wrote:
At 10:19 11 February 2020, Jim White wrote:
Without a tail would the g forces not be 0 or even negative?. I

woul
expect the first result to be a bunt to inverted. Just wondering


I once saw a crash through loss of elevator.
The time from loss of elevator to impact will have been less than
10seconds.
Horrible but quick.


I saw a glider loose the horizontal in the landing flare, 20 some years ago.. It pitched up and rolled left before the wing dung in and spun the aircraft around nearly hitting me. The pilot is still flying nearly every Saturday, and is one of the local "heroes". Funny side note, I watched that landing as the weekend before that same pilot had ground looped and nearly hit me as I was putting my bird back in box.

Did damage from the earlier ground loop contribute to losing the horizontal the
next week?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
 




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