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#181
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:12:52 -0500, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote: Jim Logajan wrote: Gig 601XL Builder wrote: Nobody said the FAA was going to properly correct the problem but that is what the aim of the action is. The better way to correct the problem would be to just have someone in OKC look through the magazines and search the internet, find those operations that are in violation, refuse the AW certificates of the next 3 aircraft that roll out of their hanger and very publicly announce the action. Ouch. Unless I'm missing something, that appears to advocate arbitrary and capricious use of authority. If all these alleged rich scoundrels are already skirting the law, there is no need to change them, right? Do you really think it is wise to promote and encourage changes to the laws that suddenly makes a victimless activity a criminal activity? What if it were an activity you engaged in and someone else was trying to make it illegal? Excuse me? I specifically wrote that the better way was to enforce the law as it is already written. I don't see where you wrote that at all. You said: "... find those operations that are in violation, refuse the AW certificates of the next 3 aircraft that roll out of their hanger..." Are you able to provide the specific language of any of "those operations that are in violation" and publicly advertise such? The implication in your comment is, that regardless of the aircrafts' airworthiness, the FAA should reject them to make a point. And to pick out companies or individuals for enforcement action who are advertising a violation of the law is hardly arbitrary or capricious. It's hardly likely that any companies or individuals are doing that also. |
#182
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
Larry Dighera wrote:
I don't see where you wrote that at all. You said: "... find those operations that are in violation, refuse the AW certificates of the next 3 aircraft that roll out of their hanger..." What part of "operations that are in violation" don't you understand Larry? Are you able to provide the specific language of any of "those operations that are in violation" and publicly advertise such? The implication in your comment is, that regardless of the aircrafts' airworthiness, the FAA should reject them to make a point. The phrase in the regulations is "for recreation and education." The spirit of the law is that aircraft certified under the EXP-HB classification are to be built in a not for profit setting and not as a way to get around the certification requirements in place for aircraft manufacturers. And it is not regardless of the aircrafts airworthiness. It is specifically because of the aircrafts airworthiness. The power that the FAA has to issue the certificate comes from the law that also sets the rules under which an EXP-HB certificate can be issued. If the aircraft isn't build under those rules it is not airworthy at least as far as those rules are concerned. And to pick out companies or individuals for enforcement action who are advertising a violation of the law is hardly arbitrary or capricious. It's hardly likely that any companies or individuals are doing that also. You really are a moron. For somebody that seems to have no skill other than cutting and pasting to USENET it amazes me that you don't realize that it is specifically this practice that is causing the FAA to look at changing the regulations. I know of at least two places where I could of have my kit delivered to and shown up for a few days and watched while it was being built doing as much or as little work (including none at all) as I desired. I would have been able to pose for some photos with the plane under construction and been able to show that to the DAR along with some bogus paperwork and I not only would have been able to get the EXP-HB AW certificate I would be able to get the repairman's certificate as well. |
#183
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote: On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:19:42 -0000, Jim Logajan wrote: Gig 601XL Builder wrote: Nobody said the FAA was going to properly correct the problem but that is what the aim of the action is. The better way to correct the problem would be to just have someone in OKC look through the magazines and search the internet, find those operations that are in violation, refuse the AW certificates of the next 3 aircraft that roll out of their hanger and very publicly announce the action. Ouch. Unless I'm missing something, that appears to advocate arbitrary and capricious use of authority. It's just another of Mr. G's well considered proposals. :-( If all these alleged rich scoundrels are already skirting the law, there is no need to change them, right? Do you really think it is wise to promote and encourage changes to the laws that suddenly makes a victimless activity a criminal activity? Hey it works for the religious right. :-) And the left. No need to get excessively picky amongst statists of any stripe. |
#184
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:11:03 -0500, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
WJRFlyBoy wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:53:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: I don't see any real change at all. they're going back to the original spirit of the rule. They are significantly re-writing the rules of the market in favor of the production aircrafters. or they are not. Which is it? They are not. They are looking at the problem that has developed regarding those that are currently violating the rules that have been in place for years. Huh? http://doc.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2...008-RVator.pdf "On Feb. 15th, in the FAA .... report were indications that procedural changes would include changes to the criteria for determining eligibility for airworthiness in the E-AB category. *In other words, re-defining the level of prefabrication and assembly permissible for kits.*" Who benefits from these re-writings, increased cost and complexity? The kit sellers? Or Cessna? |
#185
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:11:03 -0500, Gig 601XL Builder wrote: WJRFlyBoy wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:53:20 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote: I don't see any real change at all. they're going back to the original spirit of the rule. They are significantly re-writing the rules of the market in favor of the production aircrafters. or they are not. Which is it? They are not. They are looking at the problem that has developed regarding those that are currently violating the rules that have been in place for years. Huh? http://doc.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2...008-RVator.pdf "On Feb. 15th, in the FAA .... report were indications that procedural changes would include changes to the criteria for determining eligibility for airworthiness in the E-AB category. *In other words, re-defining the level of prefabrication and assembly permissible for kits.*" Who benefits from these re-writings, increased cost and complexity? The kit sellers? Or Cessna? From my point of view, only two things are certain: 1) This won't address the alleged "problem" of "hired guns" and 2) It will increase the build time. The most probable side effect will be fewer aircraft built and flown and the secondary side effect, especially for some of the composites, will be improper bonding due to slower assembly at critical stages--in other words DECREASED safety. So, in the grand scheme of things; we'll be looking at fewer kits successfully completed, less airport utilization, and eventually less sales of type certified factory completed aircraft as well. Another genuine "lose-lose" proposition! Peter |
#186
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:17:53 -0400, Peter Dohm wrote:
They are significantly re-writing the rules of the market in favor of the production aircrafters. or they are not. Which is it? They are not. They are looking at the problem that has developed regarding those that are currently violating the rules that have been in place for years. Huh? http://doc.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2...008-RVator.pdf "On Feb. 15th, in the FAA .... report were indications that procedural changes would include changes to the criteria for determining eligibility for airworthiness in the E-AB category. *In other words, re-defining the level of prefabrication and assembly permissible for kits.*" Who benefits from these re-writings, increased cost and complexity? The kit sellers? Or Cessna? From my point of view, only two things are certain: 1) This won't address the alleged "problem" of "hired guns" and 2) It will increase the build time. The most probable side effect will be fewer aircraft built and flown and the secondary side effect, especially for some of the composites, will be improper bonding due to slower assembly at critical stages--in other words DECREASED safety. So, in the grand scheme of things; we'll be looking at fewer kits successfully completed, less airport utilization, and eventually less sales of type certified factory completed aircraft as well. Another genuine "lose-lose" proposition! Peter Why do you think there will be less type certifieds sold, question not a challenge. |
#187
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
"WJRFlyBoy" wrote in message ... On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:17:53 -0400, Peter Dohm wrote: They are significantly re-writing the rules of the market in favor of the production aircrafters. or they are not. Which is it? They are not. They are looking at the problem that has developed regarding those that are currently violating the rules that have been in place for years. Huh? http://doc.vansaircraft.com/RVator/2...008-RVator.pdf "On Feb. 15th, in the FAA .... report were indications that procedural changes would include changes to the criteria for determining eligibility for airworthiness in the E-AB category. *In other words, re-defining the level of prefabrication and assembly permissible for kits.*" Who benefits from these re-writings, increased cost and complexity? The kit sellers? Or Cessna? From my point of view, only two things are certain: 1) This won't address the alleged "problem" of "hired guns" and 2) It will increase the build time. The most probable side effect will be fewer aircraft built and flown and the secondary side effect, especially for some of the composites, will be improper bonding due to slower assembly at critical stages--in other words DECREASED safety. So, in the grand scheme of things; we'll be looking at fewer kits successfully completed, less airport utilization, and eventually less sales of type certified factory completed aircraft as well. Another genuine "lose-lose" proposition! Peter Why do you think there will be less type certifieds sold, question not a challenge. I believe that anything that reduces the size of the overall fleet will have the effect of also reducing airport utilization. That will have a "snowball" effect of reducing the number of active airports, and in turn the utility of individual air travel. Also, the amateur built movement seems to me to serve as a major focal point for bringing "new blood" into aviation Therefore, the demand for factory built aircraft would ultimately suffer as well. There is an additional fudge factor in that amateur built aircraft are much more likely to be hangared than other aircraft of similar size, despite their lower average monetary value. That means that the amateur built aircraft directly contribute disproportionately to the financial health of FBOs and small airports generally. Peter |
#188
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A Call to Arms from Richard VanGrunsven
flyboy did USAF DanMc kick your ass?
WJRFlyBoy was thinking very hard : On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:51:51 -0000, Jim Logajan wrote: The FAA is about to make it a whole hell of a lot harder for people to build safe amateur built aircraft. Richard VanGrunsven, founder of one of the most successful kit aircraft companies, has written up a warning and a call to arms about the issue. Used and newly built for sale prices may jump considerably then. |
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